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Dear Darkened Souls,
Before being hated by the most untolerant and weak morons of here, may I tell you that I really enjoy listening to Danny Elfman’s music.
My question is:
You who should be open-minded (are you?), don’t you think that Danny Elfman’s music is seldom different than what he has already composed?I’m currently listening to Mars Attacks, and I surprisingly thought I was listening to The Nightmare Before Christmas.
The other day it was Edward Scissorhands which bothered my Sleepy Hollow time. Very odd.But, in fact, I just prefer when this occurs. I simply have troubles with originality in film music, since it has never existed. That’s why I like Elfman, among other better composers.
You who judgmentally tend to hate Horner, you should question yourselves. Try to find originality in Danny Elfman’s music, then try with Williams (a bit more difficult), Michael Kamen (my favorite composer, for me the one who can have something out of an orchestra) and then, you shall be acceptable little good Souls.
Bye dear lambs
The Lord of your Nightmare
jesus,
you are going to make a lot of people mad, and because you deserve it. I like Williams, and some horner as well. Many people here blame horner for self-plagarism all the time, but it’s very true. Anyway, I won more williams CDs than elfman, but I would have to say I love those scores that are closest to my heart like batman and edward more than most anything williams, horner, verdi, or anybody.
I would have to say that if you cannot tell the difference between edward and anything else elfman wrote then it’s too late for you to be saved. I’m happy you like music, but please don’t talk to anyone about it while being judgemental. jesus man, mars attacks and nightmare….Thank you!!
I was sure you’d respond this way! You’re too predictable… so lovely!
😡
(I won my bet)
If you do not find a logic correlation between Nightmare and Mars Attacks, how can you pretend to know Elfman’s music…
I told you: I prefer this. For me it has a sense. If one score is original, this score has not got any sense yet in the composer’s filmography. And if another score does not take segments of it, well it’s a pity for this useless effort that will stay alone in its unique world, far from reality.
Fortunately most composers care about their works and make them survive.
Hearing Edward in Sleepy Hollow is certainly more magical than you can imagine.
And if you cannot understand that, I can understand why you immediately responded without taking time to think.
Thanks again.
“There is a thin line between style and plagiarism.” – Dr. Raymond Liebau
I have to agree with the original poster on this, somewhat. Danny Elfman has used the half-step up, half-step down, whole step-down motive many times in his scores (play a D Eb D & C – A device that could be comparable to Horner’s danger motive or Kamen’s delayed –IV to I. Most film composers are writing melodramatic music that was done far better in the Romantic era of music by Wagner, Liszt, Brahms, Berlioz, and countless others. But that music is, as it’s classical name suggests, Romantic and emotional. And in order to achieve an emotional response you use devices that you know work. This is why most people recognize Horner’s music as usually emotionally effective in his movies even though the music itself is nothing new.
I don’t find the need to defend my love of Elfman’s music because it is what it does emotionally to ME and not to others that matters… well, to ME.
You are correct “The Lord of Nightmares”. But if you don’t get into a lot of Mr. Elfman’s works I don’t really care. The real question is why would anyone come to an Elfman board just to rattle a few chains, if he wasn’t secure enough in his own tastes to let it go? And that is not a challenge to you, but just an observation by me.
The people who slam other composers here don’t do it because he/she knows he will get a RISE from someone, but because that is his or her preference. But most of us here can rest assured that, even though we don’t share the same favorites, we all have one thing in common – our love of The Man from Elf and his music (in whatever form it takes). Even if he “reuses” a particular idea, we can, because of our passion for his music, see the originality that lies all around that “reused” bit.
— Nathaniel “Nat” L. Murphy
It`s pretty dumb to think that all Van Gogh work is similar, just because he used his genius same paintslashes in every picture
what your problem is ‘The Lord of Nightmares’ is that you dont understand danny’s music. i bet you’re one of those people that when you hear a dark piece of music you automatically compare it to batman or something. i hate it when that happens…it happens a lot to me when i compose a piece of music that to me ,and other danny elfman fans, sounds nothing like batman but because it sounds dark i ripped it off!!! thats bullshit! ‘mars attacks’ and ‘nmbc’ are really not identical…they’ve got similar traits of the compser…but then every good composer should have that. danny’s style has developed a lot over the years…and he’s still changing and evolving. unlike williams…who has NEVER changed.. and horner who just completely rips himself off. danny’s infinetely more original than those two!
oops…sorry… didnt read the other threads! but everything up there still counts! just take out the 1st sentence!
Heh…let’s not forget his undying love for Kamen, who pretty much hasn’t changed a damn thing, either. Point of fact — it doesn’t have to make sense as long as it makes DOLLARS. Hey Lord of Wetmares — if you REALLY want to get ORIGINAL score music, then i’ll tell ya what to do…MOVE AROUND TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES and watch their freaking movies. Makes sense, huh? Go to Africa and watch a Somali movie, or something…Or go to Afghan and hear the score of gunfire…same thing. Go to Japan…Why stick around here when all we Americans do is borrow off of other countries, and sound so unappealing to you? Go hear some REAL Scandinavian flutes…blah….
You think Mars Attacks! and Nightmare Before Christmas sound the same? . . . Man, are you a dumba$$?
“Before being hated by the most untolerant and weak morons of here. . .”
Speak for yourself, clownboat.
Eh…he did it just to rabble rouse. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ryan swipes this thread off the map soon…
Lord, get an antisocial life, dude. And i DO mean Arkham style.Sorry to say this but I’m smiling…this exchange of thoughts and ideas it is a real good time for me!!
I’m sure this guy “Lord of someone else nightmare” is just trying to f**k with your mind guys so (let the men in black take care of the night…)
Bobby
* You’re too predictable… so lovely! *
Your pretentiousness is not appreciated by me. I want to talk about Elfman/film music, not have some unknown patronize visitors on this board, and subsequently, die-hard Elfman fans. “The Lord of Nightmares,” huh? Sorry, dude, not scared, not even torqued off, just annoyed. If this is the same guy/gal, but under a different username, who started the whole “Worst film composers” thread, you should have learned by now.
Yeah, I’ll admit that a few of Elfman’s scores do sound the same, but what composer doesn’t recycle a theme/motif now and then? It’s sort of like writing fiction: Flannery O’Connor’s stories never cease to amaze (both positively and negatively) readers, but you COULD say that she needs to get off the themes of “black humor” and “religious references.” Now, there’s always going to be people who don’t like Elfman and/or O’Connor, but there’s a fairly large fanbase out there for both of them…so…instigating little “nanny-nanny-boo-boo” attacks isn’t going to do a thing, other than irritate a few (or many) fans. If you’re hoping to “change minds” here with your approach, it’s not doing a darned thing ( at least not for me) to change my mind, just solidify my love for Elfman’s music. Why, you ask? Well, for me, Elfman’s always been sort of “on the outside” (and yes, that was paying homage to Boingo), and thus validating my existence on the fringe o’ society.
It’s not his music that gets to me – well, it does, but not as strongly as the films he scores in conjunction with the film images themselves. If you’ll notice, he’s done a lot of character studies: Edward, Black Beauty, and most recently, Spider-man. IN the Edward commentary, he talks about having a personal connection with Edward, as well as Jack in NMBC. I feel like I have a personal connection with those characters, and thus, I identify with Elfman’s music more strongly than, say, Williams or Morricone.
Tired of having to defend why I adore Elfman’s music and, “I’ve got to tell you/ you’re a pain in the *ss” (again, borrowed from Elfman, and slightly edited),
ErikaPeople read only 80% of a text carefully. Out of the 80% they keep 40% in mind.
What happens here?
People kept in mind I was bashing Elfman.ARE YOU LOBOTOMIZED OR WHAT????
Erika’s last post is exactly what it lets assume…
Read me again then speak!
I know Elfman’s music, I like it. I extremely like it. And I do understand it. Want it or not.
You’re finally simple hyper fans who cannot talk about his music without saying anything else than “err, he’s a genius… uh… err, why? uh… sorry?”.
I’m not dumba when claiming that I find similarities between Nightmare and Mars Attacks. I thought it would be a good start for a conversation, but no, Ladies and Gentlemen HyperElffans said “NO! It never sounds like The Nightmare Before Xmas, it is impossible, it is by Danny, etc.”
Now I tell you: one can hear The Nightmare in Mars Attacks. My question is: don’t you find it specially interesting????? Don’t you find that THIS is great? THIS and nothing else?? I consider Mars Attacks a great score. But I’m totally sure of its greatness thanks to all the slight similarities and other remembrances.You did not understand me. Who can you understand? Certainly not Elfman’s music. This way, it is impossible.
(to answer Christopherness: cannot compare dark themes to Batman. Batman isn’y my favorite theme. I much prefer Darkman’s.)
(to answer DObbs –please you again learn to read– I don’t want original music. You’re killing me with that smelly stuff that “original music” is! Has anyone heard something “original”? Heck…)One person here is right (not me, one of the repsondents).
It’s worrying if one cannot speak about Danny Elfman’s without trying to think of the different senses his music has, notably by pointing out the similarities (which, again, are a great thing). Worse than the Hornershrine…Just a thought for everyone…
Why do you think, when a new score is released by a composer, be it Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, or Elfman, we compare it to a previous score or scores from that same composer?
Some people here need to lighten up a little and let the “light shine in”, but then I guess most people here has a bit of a “dark” streak in them.
“Nat” — like the bug without the G
Eagerly waiting for the MIB2 score that will sound like Elfman’s MIB score with a bit of (fill in the blank here). BRING IT ON!!!
Hey Fijord – i mean LOrd or whatever —
in two words :Next time, if you wanna avoid confusion, change your delivery. Just say ” I like elfman’s music. His Mars Attacks sounds a bit like Nightmare, and it’s pretty cool”
But NOO, you had to get all fancy on us and put in a bunch of loops in your lingo.
Your first entry worked TWO ways, and your subsequent entries actually proved your knowledge of it, so shut up already and write about something else on here. Everybody here knows you have an opinion, which is fine, but usually when somebody like you comes about and starts to get all snotty and start a big uproar, Ryan cans the thread. So if you wanna keep on yammering, so be it, but i suggest you just keep on trucking. This topic is done like fried chicken, Jules style.
Besides, i’m not interested in your logic anymore. Whatever you originally said has already been stated on this site numerous times…Talk about originality. pfftI think, “Freeway” sounds exactly like “Black Beauty”, and “Sleepy Hollow” is more or less the same music that Elfman wrote for “Midnight Run”. Man, I really hate composers like Elfman who write the same music over and over again.
shock
Well, genius, if I were lobotomized, I wouldn’t be able to type this, now would I?
The real question is: did you understand me? Obviously not. I was responding to a part of your post, NOT the post in its entirety, and agreed with you that Elfman does seem to recycle certain themes/motifs. (Listen to “Sleepy Hollow” and “Spider-man” and then tell me what you hear. Listen to “To Die For” and you’ll hear some Boingo-related sounds). However, I expanded my response by adding, “What composer doesn’t recycle a few themes/motifs?” Answer that for me, and then we can talk.
You know, and I do too, that you’re just being a pretentious windbag, who is trying to upset people on this board for your own pleasure.
Well, just off of the top of my head, the motif, “making christmas, making christamas, la, la, laaaaa” is essentially the same motif elfman has used Mars Attacks, Batman Returns, as well as others. He’s used “MIB” motif in “To Die For,” and you can hear the “PotA” theme in “Mission: Impossible.” I recently thought I heard a little “Proof of Life” in “Spiderman,” but I coulda been really tired, haven’t had a chance to compare it. There are more… These are all part of his music vocabulary, its not like he’s lifting entire themes, or anything. Its these same litte motives and stylistic ideas that make me continue listening to his music.
As far as I’m concerned, Danny’s music sounds very original, more so than other film composers. And, frankly, even though I hear a similar motif, or orchestration, I know his music well enough that I would never mistake “Mars Attacks!” for “Nightmare,” or “Sleepy Hollow” for “Edward.”
Anyway, if you didn’t get all that basically I’ll lay it out for you: blah, blah, blah, blah, and blah, so there!
– Happy Arguing!
now THAT’S what i call putting your thing down.
Just for reference:
The “making christmas” motif (in C min: Eb, D, Eb, C) is actually an old Greek\Latin funeral march and is definately an in-joke in the context of many of Danny’s implementations of it, especially in that of halloween trying to “make” christmas.
The “old Greek\Latin funeral march” that Chris refers to is called the “Dies irae”. FYI
The Lord of Nightmares wrote:
>
> I simply have troubles with originality in film music, since it has never existed.Oh, that’s right, I forgot. Film music simply came into existence spontaneously, and no one ever had to give it an original form. After all, music is simply the product of collective consciousness, it didn’t take the work of any talented individuals to bring it about. Any of us could do it just as easily and just as well! Silly me, I must not have been paying attention in my music classes. Of course there’s no such thing as originality. To believe in originality would just be stupid. Even if there were such a thing as “originality,” which there can’t be, because it’s too abstract of a concept and I can’t handle it, Danny Elfman certainly wouldn’t have any, because occasionally he uses a similar motif in some of his different works, and that precludes ANY originality that might exist anywhere in any form in any of his scores.
…Fuckin’ moron.
I apologize for my language in that last post, but there’s just no other appropriate response to that level of stupidity. I hope I didn’t offend anybody.
Of course Danny’s music is going to sound somewhat–and I do say “somewhat”–similar throughout the course of his compositions. And, that would be because they’re all done by him.
I mean, you look at an Edward Gorey drawing, and you say–that’s an Edward Gorey drawing. Likewise, if you read something by Edgar Allan Poe, then you know it’s by Edgar Allan Poe. That’s just called being a good artist, and finding your own place.
However, no two compositions by any artist are going to be exactly alike. See, they’re all like fingerprints and snowflakes. I mean, I don’t know @!#$ about music (as I’ll probably continue to prove time and time again), but I do know words. So, here goes an example in perhaps the only way that I can explain it on my terms:
Let’s say some of us on this very post are saying the exact same thing, since that’s fairly obvious. However, we’re all wording what we wish to express differently.
I mean, no two people write the same exact way. I mean, there’s even a difference between saying “Danny Elfman is a composer” as compared to “Danny Elfman is the composer” and that is just by changing one short, simple, word. Yet, the connotation clearly changes from placing Danny as just another composer, to being the best composer.
And words like “a” and “the” seem so insignificant, until you really look at them in the context of a sentence. And, I’m guessing the same thing happens in music. I mean, you take one little note, and depending on where you put, you could dramatically change the way a composition sounds.
I mean, Gorey’s work would look different if he worked in watercolor, and Herrmann’s “Psycho” would’ve took on a whole new meaning if violins weren’t used, you know?
So I’d say that it’s okay for one artist’s work to sound similar, but I ‘d also say that no two compositions sound exactly alike–not even remotely.
(And, I do not appriciate the impliment of being called a moron, by the original author of this post. Even if I completely disagreed with everything you said, it only shows your own ignorance to call others “morons” just because they have opinions that are different from your own. And, consequently, I already feel that some of the words I have used may have been too big. So, I’m sorry if you had to use a dictionary).
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