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quote: “”I think that if any thoughtful person compares his recent work with his older stuff, they will realize that something is very wrong.”
Funny, there are some people who believe that about Danny Elfman.”
Elfman’s *style* has certainly changed over the course of his career, but that doesn’t mean he’s gotten any worse. (I would say he’s actually gotten better.)
Williams’ style, on the other hand, hasn’t changed at all…only gotten worse. Personally, I didn’t even notice the score during A.I. (and I actually like the movie, at least until the last fifteen minutes). For the last couple of years, when I *have* noticed Williams’ score during a film, it’s because it’s bad. For example, the one part in Episode II where I was thinking “This sucks,” was when Anakin went to look for his mother, and the “Duel of the Fates” theme started to play. That was lazy of John Williams and extremely inappropriate to that part of the movie. Plus, the rehashing of it was just bad. The rehashing of the “Imperial March” theme at the end of the movie was more appropriate, but also very badly done.
The last 15 minutes of A.I. was a thinking ploy – it has many meanings. Sure if you end the movie with him trapped under the Farris Wheel it would have seemed to be a logical ending, but the last 15 minutes was all about how a robot “could” go about reclaiming what he had; that being love (Weather it was a dream or not). Personally I see the whole ending of that movie as a dream sequence because we have a narrator at the beginning and 15 minutes from the end the narrator pretty much rounds out the movie. Its like the narrator was the “human” presence in the movie, and the last 15 minutes (devoid of humans) is how a robot would “dream” of getting back what he had; ergo, it would be logical and incredibly sophisticated.
How often is a film made that actually makes you think?
As for Episode 2, you won’t hear any complaints out of me about the score (actually I have it number 2 on my 2002 list), but if you want to know why the duel of the fates theme played there, then ask George Lucas, because he is the one who suggested it there.
Listen, I can defend what I like forever, because I like it and respect the individual who has created it, but I don’t get why someone would particularly dwell on something that they think “has gotten worse”. Why not just listen to what you like, and when you don’t like something mention it once, and continue to listen to the things you do like.
Nat who will never really get this cult of bashing
Good God man! Don’t take that seriously!
I have really opened a can of worms with that little comment. I DON’T think we should kill John Williams (it was a JOKE MAN! Thanks Lexi) and I just think he needs to stop doing Star Wars over and over again (how many times have I heard those themes in his other movies) but in any case, this is Danny Elfman’s website so how about we talk about him? lol. I think one of the reasons that I like him so much is that he goes off into other directions which are totally different. If he didn’t, it would be like Chip Davis (Manhiem Steamroller), his sound never changes and it has gotten REALLY old. I have so much respect for him because he is not afraid to raise the bar (and I respect Williams, barley). Nat, you really need to lossen up. If you are a composer, you have to be used to those kind of remarks because you will get them all the time (about your music no less) so just relax. I DO have respect for other people’s melodic and harmonic talents but damn me to hell if I like Danny Elfman a little bit more.As a composer I do take the constructive criticism. But If I don’t defend my work (or my tastes) who will. I see my compositions as my kids. I give birth to them and then send them out into the world. If someone makes a constructive critique of my piece then I’ll see if its something I can change and still keep the message I want in the piece, but if someone calls my kid (work) a name then I’ll take that person on. I’m not asking anyone to see it the way I do. I just want some level of respect. Like I have always said, I think Danny Elfman is the best film composer working today, but not at the expense of other composers.
And as for John Williams’ scores not changing… Where have all of you been? Did you hear his scores from the 60s and 70s?… Guide for the Married Man, Missouri Breaks, Images, his various TV scores for Irwin Allen… need I go on… Not to mention his concert works (including his jazz work for Stan Kenton). I believe you are really selling the man short.
Knight: “Nat, you really need to lossen up.”
I’m not an uptight person (as many people on this board can attest to), but I have a passion for music, and right now it is my lively hood, so I consider it pretty serious to me and my life.
I’m sorry I have to say this but as far as a JOKE goes, it was in pretty bad taste – at least to me.
Knight, we both like Elfman right, so let bygones be bygones and move past this exchange. I’m sorry if any of my comments hurt you, but they are how I truly feel.
Nat who wants to buy Cabin Boy Tuesday, so I can’t be all that balanced
And since you said “this is Danny Elfman’s website so how about we talk about him?” you can email me at the provided address. And I’ll apologize to Ryan if it’s necessary.
Nat WGTLOLS
Just some more “yimmering” and “yammering”
Knight – Wow! You respect John Williams AND “barley?” Cool, man…you know, I never thought that one could compare Williams to a wonderfully trimmed field of barley, waving in the June twighlight. Ah yes, what an impeccable field of beer-making produce can dredge up in our memories: first love, cranberries, hunting dogs, lost car keys, John Williams…what a lovely comparison! Thank you for adding a little bit of poetry to my day!
-Erika (who, unlike Nat, IS a terribly uptight person…have to go comb the fringe on my doormat now…)
PS: Knight, ol’ buddy, I was just KIDDING about the “barley” comment. I just thought I’d give you a little bit of ribbing over your spelling error…all in good fun, though
Erika: I know, but typos happen quite often when I am typing on this damn computer.
Nat: I am not mad at all, and I totally understand what you are talking about when you say your compositions are like your “kids”. But the fact is, people are gonna talk sh*t, and you can’t face all of them. It sucks but what can you do? If you read some of Elfman’s interviews, he personally says that he cannot defend himself all the time, even though he would like to. Do you have anything recorded? I would love to hear it. And (as the last time I say anything about John Williams on Danny Elfman’s website, I really do like some of his stuff, but really don’t like some of his stuff, but I have not heard anything Danny Elfman wrote that I didn’t like).
So lets all be friends again and thank [insert your higher power here] that Mr. Elfman is doing another score!
(Knight can’t spell worth krap and loves to yimmer and yammer.)
Knight:
“I really do like some of [Williams’] stuff, but really don’t like some of his stuff, but I have not heard anything Danny Elfman wrote that I didn’t like.”I’d have to agree with you on that statement, but then again John Williams has been at it a lot longer.
As for my stuff, I will have a website up soon, with clips from my classical works as well as my local scoring projects. It will also contain some of my short films and art work.
Nat who noticed that you misspelled “lossen” but didn’t hold it against you at all because I would hope for the same courtesy.
Oh, and you mentioned Chip Davis, do you perchance happen to listen to Karl Jenkins’ work (which can also be very derivative, yet highly alluring)?
Not a fan of Superman–so I’d only be excited if Danny were scoring, Tim or Sam directing, or if there was some other hope that the film could in some way become snazzy (like maybe having Batman kick Superman’s butt! Yeah, that one’s for the fellow comic geeks).
This is just me being late again, because I’m good at it!
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