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Hello all
I am a frequent reader of the forum but I don’t post because, despite tremendous efforts, I have never thought of something intelligent to say so far.
But today, I’d like to share with you something I discovered last week. I was reading an interview of far the most interesting young French composer, a guy called Guillaume Connesson (for those who speak French : http://www.onpl.fr/compositeurs/connesson.html )
He’s a typical “classical” composer, brilliant orchestrator, stuffed with scholar degrees, conductor, he is asked to compose works by the greatest French orchestras and some of his work was played last summer in the USA and in European countries. In short, the kind of composer the critics consider “serious”, as opposed to the despised movie composers.
Now he doesn’t think so. Here’s a sentence from the interview I read (sorry for the poor translation, English is not my first language) :
“Question : When you were a teenager, did you only listen to classical music ?
Connesson : No, and I still don’t. Just to speak about orchestral music, I’m very fond of such movie composers as Bernard Herrmann, John Williams and Danny Elfman.” Later he says that, if he had to compose movie music, he would like to work with such directors as Tim Burton.I think it’s very funny to see so many critics, who never write a note, consider movie music with despise whereas many concert composers themselves are interested in their colleagues’ work. Another brilliant young composer named Thierry Escaich also said he respected very good movie composers and admired Hermanns’ music for Taxi driver or Psycho.
It’s not new though, as it is well known Maurice Ravel for example was a fan of Gershwin, whereas then the critics didn’t consider him a serious composer.
For those who would like to give Connesson a try, I should be able to send a couple MP3s. Mail me if you want : hoarvian@hotmail.com
For those who may care (although you may be few), critics are full of crap, certainly if concider any method of music less serious than another. If you concider the acuall cause of film scoring (which is, in my opinion, to create emotion to further enhance the emotion in the film), then you might just agree to me. Film scoring is not an easy task, because unlike concert works, you have to write a piece that is fitting to the film, that matches the rythem of the film, the setting of the film, and overall, the tone of the film. While some call Danny the “master of dark music”, he is able to get that bright tone as well, if the film calls for it (see his score to Flubber as well as a bunch of others). This is a very hard buisness, and the only thing that bothers me is that some people don’t take it seriously, even some film composers (like, say, Billy Corgan). With classical being a bad word nowdays, I am so grateful to know that there are other people who love this music as much as I do.
Knight (The true film music fan)
Critics? … What are those?
Well. hell, the extent of my music ability lies in the fact that I can push the power and play button (and even the other “fancy” buttons on good days!), so I try and not bad mouth any composer….I just happen to think that Danny is the best, is all!
And, I don’t think critics are of importance, either. I mean, when it comes down to it, it’s just a matter of personal taste, you dig?
And I’m thinking that if I’m clever enough to see through their attempts at public brain-washing, then pretty much everyone is–I mean, I’m not all that bright, so it’s just kinda sad when I catch onto something that quick, you know? They could at least try and be sneaky….
We are all critics.
Nat
we might all be critics, but I listened to a 40 minute interview the other day with Leonard SLatikin and John WIlliams (found at johnwilliams.org) in which they talked about Film Music’s position in the world. Slatkin mentioned his feelings that more or less, it’s music, it’s good, and it had been made so you can’t ignore it. he said this even for the hollywood people who may or may not know how to read a note of music, and just do all their stuff on synths. His example was also, if we have a five minute section of our concert where we might be inclined to play the triomphal march from Aida, why is it any less viable than playing the March from Indiana Jones. It was a pretty interesting talk.
I claim ignorance on many fronts, and am forced to take the position of ‘I know what I like’,As Peter Schikele always reiterates before his radio show…
“If it sounds good, it IS good” — Duke Ellington
Nat
Great quote!
If it is music, at least one person likes it, no matter how strange or non-musical it may seem, because the person who wrote it obviously has to like it (as most people usually write what they would want to hear, even in different genres). I acually have trouble finding music that I don’t like, rather than music that I do. It’s all a matter of preferance, and for some reason alot of music clicks with me (even weird chinese chants or yodeling hehehe). So I pose this question: What is the strangest type of music that you like (not genres in particular, but really strange stuff. For example, there are people out there who will just sample all kinds of non-tonal sounds and play them back in odd rythmic patterns, or atonal music, or Eminem [Buahahahaha!])?
Knight (Who questions everything)
Now this is the part where I turn the black and white into a million shades of gray…just music by itself?…or music with lyrics?…noise…whatever…
Most of the time when I find music I don’t like it’s usually because of what the lyrics say…Other times the song might be too repetitive or go on longer than it should, but then the solution would be the cut it down a bit, cus it wasn’t like I hated it or anything.
People react differently to music. Take someone like…Yanni(smile, laugh, get over it) I think it’s relaxing. My music major roommate says it’s “pretty, but it makes me restless.” I can see what she’s saying but what she finds restless about it is what makes it better for me.
Someone like Eminem …well…it really varies on what mood I’m in. Sometimes I can stomach it, sometimes…well…blah.
I like the Chieftains (good Irish fun) Makes me wanna get up and dance around the room. Some people have NO tolerance for the sound of certain instuments they use.
I’ve gone through all the phases…bubble gum, classic rock, hard rock/metal, SORRY I will admit I missed the ALTERNATIVE/GRUNGE bandwagon totally… 80s music, I’ve tried about everything.
Oh, crap. I really didn’t answer Knight’s question. sorry. I do know that atonal music makes my roommate twitch. hee hee. So does my singing.
nyah.Jo the I-should’ve-read-the-question-better Elfgirl
Not to nit-pick Knight but saying
“at least one person likes it, no matter how strange or non-musical it may seem, because the person who wrote it obviously has to like it (as most people usually write what they would want to hear, even in different genres)”
is not entirely true.Aleatoric (or chance music) is a form of music that needs only simple “rules” instead of designation the traditional notes, tempos and, dynamics. And even though a composer might come up with those “rules”, he doesn’t necessarily have to like the results – because each performance is going to be drastically different.
John Cage is one of composers who helped pioneer aleatoric composition. I find it fascinating – and not necessarily the music that is created, but how that music is created. Just take a look at the manuscript to John Cage’s ARIA – it is beautifully notated, but it contains no notes, just a single line that describes how the solo singer is suppose to “sing” the lyrics. The line changes shape, thickness, and even color (example: blue line means “in a bluesy manner”).
Some other composers that have used aleatoric compositing (and for better aural effect) are Witold Lutoslawski – who is the best composer to utilize it IMHO, and Alan Hovhaness who’s “And God Created Great Whales” is one of my favorite 20th century compositions.
Howard Shore even used aleatoric practices in his score for THE CELL – to show a film music example. You might also want to look into the early electronic music of Milton Babbit, but I find his stuff dated now. Or better yet try Krzysztof Penderecki.
All in all, music – which was once defined as organized sound, had to be redefined when aleatoric music came along. As my composition teacher once told me “Music is Sound, and any sound can be music.” We have Cage’s 4’33” to prove that.
Nat
I LOVE MUSIC!Yeah Nat, I heard about that one! Never got to see it performed though (HAAAAAAHAHAHHA). Anyhow, you do have a point there, but even so, the composer still might like the idea of what they where doing, and therefor like the piece (no matter how it was recorded) which gives a single fan. It’s kinda like a script writer, he (or she) could write a script that they totally love, but the director and the producers could totally botch it, but he will still like the script. But you didn’t answer my question: What is the strangest type of music that you like? Was it aleatoric?
Knight (Now listening to Gregorian Chants)
“…but even so, the composer still might like the idea of what they where doing, and therefore like the piece (no matter how it was recorded).”
But dose he?
The whole idea of 4’33” is to make the listener the performer. The “composer” then becomes the audience as a whole (and any extraneous noise that occurs during that 4 minutes and 33 seconds). Therefore an audience that didn’t like the piece hated what they had composed. Cage was saying NOISE IS MUSIC and there are noises that are physically debilitating to humans, so then would you say that those sounds are “liked” by any person. It’s the chaos theory set to music. To create, one doesn’t need artistic intent – heck if I take a crap, I’m creating (in fact that has been the basis of some modern art). It’s just how you look at it.
And I guess my fondness for certain aleatoric music would be strange, but if I just like the concept of it, then do I really like the music, your question after all was: “What is the strangest type of music that you like?” And if the concept itself is not considered music then what is it that I like?
Nat
To answer your question more directly Knight (sorry to get out on a tangent of alternate meanings for Music, and what constitutes composition), I’d have to say that some of the strangest music that I like is native Tibetan music.
There is this ritualistic music (consisting of horns and drums) that is used to drive out evil spirits – that music totally mesmerized me. It even inspired me to write a piece, named for the ceremony “Padma Sabhava” for orchestra that tries to emulate that type of music in the middle section. It’s a very standard ABA form written so that it required lots of accidentals, and after the middle ceremonial music the same section is played again, this time with the accidentals (evil spirits) exorcised from the piece.
Nat
Have I said that I LOVE MUSIC! I can’t remember.
I dunno–I’ve drawn and wrote lots of stuff I don’t like….I think that sometimes you just try and do what you do, and hope for the best.
I mean, sometimes whatever you’re working on can turn out great–or at least decent. But, more often than not, it can just turn into crap, you know? At least, that’s how it works with me–I have lots of crap lying around….
I get what Nat’s saying about the music constantly changing, though–because the same thing applies with words, really–especially in poetry; it all depends upon how it’s being read that leads to the interpretation.
I mean, just a simple word like “a” and “the” can carry on entirely different connotations–and I imagine something similar happens with a score. I mean, what if someone accidentally reads the wrong word, or hits a different note in a live performance? It’s all subject to change, really….
Plus, there’s the theory that whatever’s spoken, or played out loud, pretty much floats on into oblivion and all–you just can’t hear it, because it’s bouncing around too far in the atmosphere (sort of like when aliens hear old radio stations in outer space on those old science fiction flicks and such).
So, I suppose in a sense you could say there are multiple interpretations of any single work floating about, at any given time–but that’s only if you’d want to get real philosophical-like and all….
Well Nat, the only reason I said that is because if I compose, write, draw, film, or record something I don’t like, I delete, trash, or burn it before anyone can hear it.
Knight (Who doesn’t do that too often)
I leave my crap lying around–I’m masochistic, I suppose….humiliation is inspiration to do better and all (although I’m not above tossing out old crap)….
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