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I personally do not know Dies Irae, but someone once told me that the notes of the lyrics “Di-es I-rae” are the same as those of “Ma-king Christ-mas” (and, to a lesser extent, the first few notes of, roughly, the Mars Attacks! main theme).
Is this true? And if so, is there any specific correlation between Elfman and the use of this Dies Irae melody, or is it just coincidence?
Dies Irae has been qouted by just about every film composer ever. It’s just one of those things!
Ryan
Yes, your right, but that is only 4 notes of a 20 (or thereabouts) note theme. So it really isn’t the same. As for the second question, no one knows but Elfman, so you would have to ask him.
Knight (And Ryan is right, alot of composers have used that theme, because it is THE theme of Death. I don’t think anyone knows who wrote it because that theme dates back to the Gregorian Chant days)
That’s right, the Dies Irae theme has been quoted very often by classical composers : Berlioz (Symphonie fantastique), Rachmaninoff (Symphonic dances, the Bells, Paganini variations…), Respighi (Brazilian impressions), Isaye (3rd sonata), Liszt (Totentanz), Renaud Gagneux (Messe des morts) and many others. I like it in Herrmann’s Obsession, too.
As Knight says, I guess it is widely used because it symbolizes death. I like, at the end of Rachmaninoff’s symphonic dances, the “fight” between the Dies Irae and Rachmaninoff’s own “Alleluia theme” from the Vespers (self-quotation), which describes the fight between hope and the fear of the death. I am still trying to figure which is the winner in this score !
Wasn’t that also the theme for THE SHINING?
Yep, that was the theme for the shining. I also heard it in The Bible when Adam and Eve were being thrown out of the Garden of Eden. And I’m not so sure if it’s supposed to symbolize Death as much as Evil. I know it was sometimes used in church music to represent the devil. I’m not sure if that’s what it was originally meant for, but it seems that that’s the way composers take it now. (although, Adam and Eve being thrown out of the garden was kind of a representation of their death….)
-+>Joe Evans
Does anybody know the notes of the tune?
New here, but this is one of my favorite topics…
The Dies Irae was originally used as part of the catholic Requiem mass (mass for the dead). The “lyrics” themselves are very old (don’t remember from when, between 12th and 14th century, I think). “Dies Irae” means Day of Wrath – it’s a description of judgment day. The text has been used in many other composers’ settings of the requiem mass – Mozart, Berlioz and Verdi being the most famous examples (Benjamin Britten, Brahms and Faure don’t use it in their requiems) – the most terrifying IMO being Verdi’s – very theatrical.
Notes in Dorian mode (equivalent to D Minor without the flattened
for the first two stanzas:
F E F D E C D D … F F G F E D C E F E D(Di-es I-rae Di-es Illa … Sol-vet Sae-e-e-clu-um in fa-vil-la)
“Dies Irae, Dies Illa, Solvet Saeclum in favilla” meaning something like “Day of Wrath, This day, the world will lie in ashes” or whatever…
The lengths of the notes are up to the composer reusing it… They’re not notated in the original manuscript.
– Jimmi
Oh, the original plainchant is longer, by the way. There are about a dozen verses, and six phrases in the music as far as I recall. The first 2 I wrote in letters above. Can’t remember the last 4. And I may have made a mistake with those notes – they’re from memory, and without a piano nearby to check – someone else correct me if I have…
And I should add that, of course, Mozart, Berlioz and Verdi didn’t use the original plainchant notes, but wrote their own music with the same text.
On an Elfman sidenote, you might say that the Sleepy Hollow theme (not the bass theme, the other one) could be heard as a variation on the original Dies Irae theme too (if you’re a creative listener
– Jimmi
>>meaning something like “Day of Wrath, This day, the world will lie in ashes” or whatever…
I love you.
Yeah, that is right Jimmi. But alot of times composers did it in different keys (but who cares right?). For Belioz’s Symphonie Fantastique it was all quarter notes with the last E being a dotted quater note and the last D being a half note then again a quater note (I think). That was the same way they did it on the Shinning too (I think). Belioz’s was in C minor though (I think, in his Symphonie Fantastique).
Knight (Did I say I think enough?)
There’s also a piece in Mozart’s Requiem Mass, titled: Dies Irae.
Which was used in X-Men 2 when Nightcrawler broke into the White House.
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