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From an Interview with Hans Zimmer at http://www.rediff.com/movies/2005/jun/15hans.htm
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Q: Batman is a franchise that Danny Elfman has already given a hugely memorable theme to. What is it like when you are expected to take that music forward?
A: I don’t have a Batman theme. I didn’t watch the movie again, on purpose. And, when James (Newton Howard, his co-composer) and I were working in the studios, Danny was in the other room working on (Tim Burton’s) Charlie And The Chocolate Factory. So we’d kid around, and I’d ask if he wants to help with some bat-stuff. And he’d laugh and say, ‘I’ve already done it. It’s your problem now.’
It is going to be compared with his work, but I can’t help that. It’s not a fair comparison. Like when The Beatles are compared to The Stones: they may both be singing a lovesong, but that’s about all they have in common. And this is a Christopher Nolan film, which just happens to be called Batman. And that makes it completely separate from a Tim Burton film.
I’m glad that Elfman and Zimmer are freinds. I suspect that it’s the same with Horner, If he and Danny are enemies, it’s probably because the fans set them up to be.
I don’t know. I read somewhere that Danny didn’t appreciate the way Horner copied both him and Nino Rota in the Honey I Shrunk the Kids score. I’m pretty sure he says that in an interview.
I mean, sure, Elfman was inspired by Nino Rota when he did Pee-Wee (so what) but he didn’t copy the man verbatem. Listen to the opening ostinato line from Horner’s Honey I Shrunk the Kids. It’s a carbon copy of the opening line from Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure. Then the music goes on to quote music from Rota’s Amacord without shame. Rota’s estate had to actually force the makers to put a credit in there at the end for the use of the theme.
Case in Point: http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/elfman/archive/FSM95a.htm
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Elfman’s criteria, on the other hand, is more in degrees of originality. For him, if score Z is a knock-off of scores X and Y, no matter how close or not-close it is, it’s still a knock-off, so who cares? Lost forever are the infinite number of different and potentially much better ways of approaching movie X. Elfman does not get work based on his ability to write knock-offs of different composers – he’s the first to admit he’s not trained in the way John Williams is, and thus there’s no point in him trying to be John Williams. Plus, he has written so many of the “score X’s” of the world in the first place – things like Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Batman and Edward Scissorhands which end up in every temp score, and anybody who disagrees should watch Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Casper – that it’s infuriating for him to see other composers rip him off, deny it, and all the while deny that he even “wrote” those scores in the first place.
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Elfman cites John Williams’s classic shark theme from Jaws as an example which if ripped-off today, would be justified probably like this “They’d say, ‘Well, it’s just two notes, it’s just a thing, anybody could have done that, so I’m just kind of doing the same thing, I’m not really doing John Williams.’ Well, the fact is, he did it first. It doesn’t matter how simple it is or where it came from, he brought it to a genre. It doesn’t matter to me whether I can identify John Williams’s classical homage for several of the Star Wars themes. The fact is, he brought it to the science fiction genre and made it fresh. On Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure, of course I was inspired by Nino Rota. Nino Rota’s influence is all over it, but I was the first to take it and apply it to a contemporary American comedy. And then after Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure came out, I heard Nino Rota-inspired music in every contemporary comedy for the next five years! And still, well ‘Elfman didn’t do that, that’s inspired by Nino Rota,’ but that’s not the point. The point is they didn’t think of doing it for an American comedy The fact that Nino Rota and Bernard Hermann are my inspirations and show themselves in scores like Batman and Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure I’ll freely admit.” Elfman cites Psycho. Vertigo, The Day the Earth Stood Still, Jason and the Argonauts and “just about everything” by Herrmann as among his favorites, Rota’s work for Fellini’s Casanova is his single most favorite score, the music getting into the film to a point where it’s “almost a musical with everyone about to burst into song and sing along with the score.”
Yes, you’re right, Horner has ripped off Elfman and other composers (including himslef) quite often. I guess I just can’t imagine that being a reason that Danny wouldn’ t have enough respect to be able talk to the man and not insult him. Yeah, he might not be freinds with him, I can’t see him joking with Horner the way he jokes with Zimmer. But it always seemed to be the Horner fans at the Elfman fan’s throats and vice-versa and not Elfman and Horner at each other’s throats. Maybe I should listen to more Horner so I can have a better understanding of how unorigional he is, I havent heard a whole lot of his stuff.
Well, I’m not saying he’s unoriginal per say. Horner did some kick-ass Klingon music for Star Trek II. He is talented. I suppose it’s mostly the few times he pulls something “unoriginal” that overshadows the majority. I doubt very much that Elfman holds a grudge though so, I agree, it’s probably just the fans at eachother’s throats.
Behind Danny Elfman, James Horner is my second favorite composer. His “Rocketeer” and “Apollo 13” scores are among my favorites, and I’m also fond of “Mighty Joe Young,” “The Perfect Storm,” and “Glory” are also among my favorites. I have no say on the conflict issue because I think both men are brilliant composers.
Interestingly, however, Elfman’s “The Letter” from A CIVIL ACTION sounds suspiciously like James Horner’s “End Credits” from APOLLO 13. I have no doubt it’s just a coincidence, but still….
Yeah, Elfman has borrowed ideas before. At the Elfmanzone it talks about one unreleased cue in the Edward Scissorhands score. I’ts the cue played when the housewives are running around the neighborhood gossiping. It sounds like and accordion version of Phantom of the Opera.
Well, I think Elfman has inspirations that span everywhere. Whether it’s ideas for tone color or whatnot, different composers emulate eachother all the time (whether they know it or not). There is a demarcation point though, between simply sounding similar to someone and writing a “note-for-note” copy of someone else’s music. Unless it was intended (i.e. Mission: Impossible), I don’t think Elfman has ever gone that far.
James Horner has. Ask the estate of Nino Rota.
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