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  • #37941
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hello All,

    I recently discovered the incredible music from this film (can’t believe it eluded me this long) and I was so disappointed to find out that it is unavailable except for the rare promo. Anyone know how I can buy a copy? I’ve had to settle for continually listening to the only two tracks found on youtube – Promise and Finale. Do yourself a favor if you aren’t familiar with this music – find it and crank up your speakers! Amazing music!

    #58376
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think I like this music so much because of the extreme emotional impact it has, especially when viewed with the “Promise” scene in the film. So powerful.

    #58385
    boingomusic
    Participant

    Oh man… I love this soundtrack so much. The music reflects to perfectly the feeling of regret, and nostalgia.
    Even if it’s not as obviously nostalgic as Black Beauty, for example, it is in my opinion, way stronger. Maybe not melodically but it’s so deep.

    I do have the promotional cd. And knowing it’s not on sale, I guess it’s something I could share.

    But I also know I can’t post links to full albums here… Ryan… i need some help here… what should I do?

    #58386
    Lambegue
    Participant

    I have a bootleg of this one, it appears sometimes on e-bay (hope it’s not a problem to give the name of the website ?). Most of the time, it’s quite expensive, especially for something totally unofficial…

    #58387
    ddddeeee
    Participant

    Probably the biggest gap in Elfman’s discography.

    #58388
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Boingomusic, That would be incredibly generous of you and I would be so grateful. I love reflective, nostalgic film music and those tracks I’ve heard take the cake. I have been a casual fan of Elfman’s but have not really delved into all of his work. If he’s got other music like that I want to listen to it. I enjoy his Edward Scissorhands music very much.You suggested Black Beauty – any others in that realm?

    #58427
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’ve probably watched that Promise scene about a hundred times this week where at the end of the movie (1 hr. and 40 min. to be exact on Netflix) when knows that he has to go back to reality after finally falling in love with his new-found family. The beginning of the scene where he hovers over the baby while stroking his head chokes me up every time, probably because I have 2 kids of my own around the same age as his kids in the film (6 and 2) and I can’t imagine having to give them up from my life. What’s also great about that scene is that the director/producer let the music work its magic with only some slight dialogue interruptions. You can really hear the music in the forefront for the majority of the scene. Good choice on their part! It’s annoying when great music gets covered with meaningless sound effects or dialogue!

    #58405
    Lambegue
    Participant

    The first scores that come in my mind in that kind of mood from Elfman are “Big Fish”, “Will Hunting” and “Charlotte’s Web”. I consider this last one as a very underrated score, it’s always a great pleasure to listen…

    ddddeeee : yes, with “Dolores Claiborne”. I know this one has an album, but so many good pieces are left behind…

    #58424
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I just purchased the Music for a Darkened Theatre Vol. 2 from Amazon. Looking forward to getting it.

    #58425
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Boingo, if you are still willing to share this amazing music with me, and I really hope you are, I would be so unbelievably grateful. Feel free to email me at wjtakacs@yahoo.com so we can connect on this! Thank you!

    #58402
    DannyBiker
    Participant

    Check your email address… ;-)

    Edit : about the promo, the harp at the beginning of “Change of Life” (no idea what it refers to, I’ve only seen bits of the film years ago) is absolutely lovely. I’m kind of sad he never brought back that musical phrase in latter scores to expand/explore it a bit further. Especially since he totally used one of the Family Man theme for the Spider-Man theme.

    #61767
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    He also used it in the Finale in a slightly lower key. It’s gorgeous. Thanks again, DannyBiker!!! So I’m curious about orchestrations. I know that many Hollywood film composers have a team of orchestrators (spelling?). How much is the composer involved? I assume he/she has final say. The orchestration choices are just as genius as the composing. Does Elfman or another composer hand off a piano score to his team and they make all or most of the choices? That harp, for instance. I can’t see it being better in another instrument – it was the perfect choice! I also love the use of clarinet all over this score – it’s great and provides the perfect sense of longing. Wouldn’t have sounded as good on flute or oboe in my opinion.

    #62357
    Lambegue
    Participant

    I imagine it changes from one composer to another, but as far as I know : the composer writes his score on synths, and chooses the instruments used, or at least the families of instruments. The job of the orchestrator is to make it work with real instruments ; for example, if the composer has writter a melody for the strings, the orchestrator will have to determine precisely how the strings group is constituted : how many violins, how many cellos…? He also gives advices concerning the precise instrument to use : there are really quite a lot of different kinds of harps, for example, and I guess the orchestrator helps to choose the better one for the mood wanted by the composer.
    Here, I’m not so sure of what I say but I think the orchestrator is also a bit of an arranger : if he sees that things that worked on synths won’t work for an orchestra, I guess he can be the one (with the validation of the composer, of course) to change slightly the writing, in order to adapt it to real conditions.
    If I missed something important, I hope someone will correct me !

    #62354
    Thor
    Participant

    It’s an excellent score. The two tracks on the commercial release (previously mentioned) are really the best tracks in the whole score — so good choice, at least, if you only include two tracks — but the promo version is the one to get.

    I even got designer Jim Titus (now a reknown album designer) to make me a cover for this, back when I got it on a shoddy CD-R.

    #62355
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’ve only gotten to listen to the whole thing once so far, but yeah, it’s hard to beat Promise. I think the Farewell and Finale tracks are right up there though.

    #62356
    bookbinder3
    Participant

    About the orchestrators…if a composer writes for orchestra…he writes for the orchestra…Elfman especially. There’s no way he doesn’t choose every instrument…that is a big part of his signature style and sound…even though orchestrators come and go and Bartek (his one-time band-mate and major orchestrator) isn’t always involved. Bartek said in the Elfman/Burton book that Danny produces extremely detailed demos (and from the mock-ups we heard on that set, like Beetlejuice and early Nightmare Before Christmas songs…everything is there) and the instrumentation is part of the DNA of the piece, Danny has always written like that. Bartek also talked about how a veteran orchestrator helped them with their first few films…pointing out where trumpets would have to take over from french horns in Pee Wee because horns couldn’t play as high as had been written…this was when they were new to big orchestras…they wouldn’t have been making mistakes like that for very long…certainly not by the time The Family Man came about. Orchestrators, in film music especially, perform a largely organisational role. The business of preparing complete, playable scores and individual sheet music for 100+ musicians playing maybe 100 minutes of dense, precisely timed and complicated music is a mammoth undertaking requiring a great deal of coordination. The speed at which a composer is required to work, with digital editing allowing a director to completely recut a film in a weekend just doesn’t allow one person to do it all themselves anymore.

    #68370
    sajrocks
    Participant

    Elfman discussing orchestration/orchestrators, courtesy of an ancient (1995!) Film Score Monthly profile:

    Quote:
    “I use orchestrators, not arrangers. The difference may seem subtle. but it’s not,” [Elfman] explains. “The orchestrator’s job is to take music which has been clearly written and balance it for the size orchestra that has been designated. Steve Bartek has been my primary orchestrator on almost every film I’ve done. He never changes a melody, he doesn’t add counterpoint, he does not change or add harmonies. That’s the composer’s job. He will elect what instrumentation might best express what I’m trying to convey in terms of doubling melodies and dividing the parts of the string section so they can be used most effectively. I don’t want to minimize this job, it’s very important. It’s time-consuming and I, Iike most composers, depend on our orchestrator to complete the final stage of the scoring. John Williams uses orchestrators and he certainly doesn’t need to. Prokofiev used orchestrators, though he certainly didn’t need to. I use orchestrators for the same reason.” To give specific examples, if Elfman wrote three parts for strings, Bartek will decide which individual players will play which note to best balance the orchestra. He might also write out more orchestral parts than are eventually used; for example, the oboe music might include lines from the flute part, so that even though the oboist is not expected to play, his music will include the flute lines in case it is deemed necessary for him or her to “double” (also play) it. It’s simply easier to have it all written in advance than to have to rush and have the copyist scribble out new parts on the stage. “We may have the first pass of a cue over-orchestrated, and then have to tacit parts, but better that than under-orchestrated,” he explains.

    The orchestrator is helpful before the recording, as well as during it. “I have a tendency to overwrite, as you’re well aware, and Steve is very helpful in finding train-wrecks before we get to the scoring stage. When I’m moving very fast, he’ll be able to help me, like ‘tell me where I fucked up by laying it on too dense.’ Sometimes Steve will call me up, he’ll say, ‘Your melody is down there in this very loud section, I think you’ve got to make a decision between what the trombones are playing or where the melody is.'”

    #68380
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Very interesting stuff

    #68381
    boingomusic
    Participant

    Sorry I didn’t answer sooner. I was away a few days. Seems Danny Biker sent you the score. I’m glad you can finally listen to this beautiful music.

    #68412
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thank you! Me too! It’s been going pretty much nonstop in my car and on my iPod (yes I’m old school and still have an actual iPod!). I recently bought the DVD was finally able to listen and watch Danny Elfman’s commentary on the DVD special features. It was very cool to listen to his thoughts and process regarding his scoring. I only wish he had spoken more about it throughout the movie.

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