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“Elfman’s criteria, on the other hand, is more in degrees of originality. For him, if score Z is a knock-off of scores X and Y, no matter how close or not-close it is, it’s still a knock-off, so who cares? Lost forever are the infinite number of different and potentially much better ways of approaching movie X. Elfman does not get work based on his ability to write knock-offs of different composers – he’s the first to admit he’s not trained in the way John Williams is, and thus there’s no point in him trying to be John Williams. Plus, he has written so many of the “score X’s” of the world in the first place – things like Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Batman and Edward Scissorhands which end up in every temp score, and anybody who disagrees should watch Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Casper – that it’s infuriating for him to see other composers rip him off, deny it, and all the while deny that he even “wrote” those scores in the first place.“
What a great article. I’m sure most of you have read it anyway:
http://www.elfmansheetmusic.homestead.com/z_1995FSM.htmlIt couldn’t be more evident he was talking about Horner even if he mentioned his name. Just read the “Sounding Off” part of the article.
That’s one hell of a great site with a truckload of information that will drive any Elfman fan to the high heavens.
Oh, I forgot about this other pearl:
“I won’t take on too many films, let them overlap, do two at the same time, have to turn to arrangers and just churn it out by the yard, or start a music composing franchise with ‘proteges’ like several unnamed big shots are doing right now. With salaries hovering near the half-million mark and with the ability to spend several weeks writing a theme or two and having a team of arrangers do the work, it’s easy to see where the temptation leads.”
Media Ventures, anyone?
<>
Indeed, Elfman _does_ smoke, but he’s said repeated times that he doesn’t drink nor does he do any drugs.
So there you are.
Quote:Hem….does it really matter ?No, but what DOES matter is the fact that Horner has dissed Elfman, so we must march united to his studio with pitchforks in hand and ask for his head
Hi.
I just registered for this forum just so I could post a response to this thread.
First, You should know that I am one of the biggest James Horner fans in existence- so you know just where I’m coming from.
The article you posted was written by one Lukas Kendall.
I don’t know if you are aware of just who he is, so I’ll tell you:
1. He created the magazine “Film Score Monthly”
2. He has used his crap rag of a magazine as a means of putting down James Horner for years. His level of hatred for Horner’s music even led to several personal attacks- which just screams pathetic. I mean it’s one thing if you don’t like the music, but to attack the man? Kendall is well known for it, and in a 2004 issue (Volume 9, No. 2) in which Horner actually agreed to an interview, Kendall admitted in his editorial that he has been the source of many horrible stories about him.
The point of what I’m saying is this- The portion of the article you posted was written from a ridiculously prejudicial point of view.
I am not biased against any composer. Danny Elfman is probably the most uniquely gifted composers to ever score a film, and also, I noticed the “Edward Scissorhands”-like themes in so many commercials it’s beyond rip-off at this point.
Anyway, that’s just the perspective of a Horner fan.
Bye for now.
Well, Horner has the gift, no doubt about that, but it’s how he uses it that bugs me. For one, he keeps on taking on score that he has no time for, and is reduced to ripping either himself or others off (now before people get all anal keep in mind that about 99% of composers have to do this, the time restraints sometimes leave you no choise). I guess the best example I can think of is Bicentennial Man and A Beautiful Mind.
Now the question is why would he do this when he now has the capability to pick and choose whatever he wants? The same goes for Elfman who keeps on grabbing at these Superhero movies (sorry but we all kow he can do better, for sure after the Spider-man 2 fiasco). Elfman did get alot of crap from other composers, but this was a LONG time ago people. If Horner did diss Elfman, I wouldn’t care, because it was probably like 10 years ago.
Now what pisses me off is when people fail to realise that scoring for film is a REALLY hard job. Sure, if you write something original, it will end up in a temp track and therefore probably get ripped off by someone who has about 10 days to write 50min of score. Just look at The Amittyville Horror (new one). Horner’s “Bishop’s Countdown” was ripped off twice in that film. Besides, younger composers are usually ASKED to imitate other composers all the time. It’s hard to get into this industry and even harder to get to a point where you can be really original.
Basically, it runs down like this. Sure, Horner has written some Elfmanish cues. And others have written some Hornerish cues, and other people rip off those other people. It’s a food chain that even Elfman is not immune to (although his use of that music is usually VERY original), and until directors, music supervisors and studio execs learn that original music can be just as effective or even moreso than thier damn temp tracks, we are a bit stuck with this. If you want this to change, become a director that respects your composer.
Knight (Ok, that is enough ranting for now)
Nick makes a valid point here – that the source of your information should always be taken into account. Normally this is easy for Elfman fans because the source is usually interview or commentary material. This is one of the most extensive articles on the composer available, though.
N.B. Tex’s website (the url Danny posted) hasn’t been updated for a few years. Tex contacted the EZ sometime ago and claimed in his normal bellow that he had a life now and would no longer devote his time to Elf-web black arts, so I assume he just left the site for the vultures. Luckily there are several websites out there that keep these articles duplicated so they are still searchable on Google, etc.
Blunt
There was no part perhaps allusion of Elfman’s part, perhaps it’s all our opinions carrying us to rampant speculation. In any case, I hope no one is saying Horner is not a good composer or anything.
I am discouraged from some of Horner’s efforts but it happens, and no one is saying scoring something like Troy in like 2 and a half days is simple (even with ten ‘orchestrators’)…
It’s not simple. I don’t feel so much for the Horner’s or Zimmers…I personally am scared for the Elfman’s of the world who seem to travel a path of what they consider their calling, their art, and then get worn down and discouraged after a lifetime of fighting the system. a la Bernstein. I don’t want Danny to get bitter.
Hopefully he will be like Goldsmith and just never be satisfied with the amount of chances to write music, and never be sidetracked by the Hollywood crap.“and anybody who disagrees should watch Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Casper – that it’s infuriating for him to see other composers rip him off, deny it, and all the while deny that he even “wrote” those scores in the first place.”
This is indirectly referring to Horner through the scores he’s written, I guess.
I’ve never seen that as a reference to Horner but rather the film music “world” (i.e., the bottom feeders who attach themselves to the industry of film music, not the composers and those who legitimately make their living within that industry).
Ryan
Woo, I was in Italy for the past 2 weeks so I’ve missed out!
I always imagined that Danny and Horner were musical allies. I don’t know why, I just always thought that. I love Horner’s music, and it would suck if they were feuding. Of course, the premise of feuding film composers just seems a bit silly. We’re going to soon have film composer battles just like rap battles. Just remember that the Ottman/Elfman feud was a false rumor.
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