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I’m new here, a fan of ten years, and not starting off on a great foot, but the frustration is real. I feel like moreso than any other composer/director matchup, Elfman is stuck in a Groundhog Day From Hell with Tim Burton. Even Johnny Depp seems to have been semi-released.
It was all fun and games when Burton was an inspired young hotshot, but now that he’s cranked out less than stellar stuff for a decade, he’s taking Elfman down with him both creatively and in terms of public opinion. I know careers ebb and flow and their prime probably passed, but there is more to it than that. They’ve become a sort of punchline because of the same old-same old, which is preventing people from giving either of them a fair unbiased shot now.
Frankly, that composer round table from a while ago was shocking to me regarding how Elfman reacted to the other composers having such a normal and respectful relationship with their directors, and don’t tell me it’s just humor cause there seemed a real uncomfortable truth to it.
And of course, just like with every other movie that is cutting its score budget lately, Elfman gets to do less and less music even in Burton’s movies the second he can be shoved aside for Lana Del Rey etc, though he is still expected to waste a huge chunk of his time on them. He also seems led to grovel more than any other composer about how Burton has given him a career, as if the other way around was not just as much the case in 1985.
Yes I’m sure I’m not being fair. This is just how movies work. And even without Burton there has lately only been Burton-lite (Goosebumps), Fifty Shades of Shame, and whatever the hell he’s doing with David O Russell besides telling him his movies don’t need a score.
And it’s probably in Elfman’s typical way of going about with his whole career that he is so intrinsically linked with just Burton and not with much else, unfortunately. And yet it just doesn’t sit well.We can’t hope to have any more of what I consider the highlight of their partnership– the opportunity for Elfman to write and sing songs. Frankenweenie was such a downer compared to Nightmare and Corpse Bride, it seems as if a studio head asked ‘why would you have something as archaic as Elfman writing songs when Karen O. has cross promotion?’
I got super excited when even an inkling that he might not be doing Peregrine’s came up recently. It was shot down fairly quickly, and further dashed somewhat straight away by seeing that damn Alice Through the Lisa Frank trailer, and then I was very confused about my strong reaction until I realized how much it seems that this thing they’ve got is exhausted and needs a major breather.
I greatly appreciate the past but don’t think it requires a life sentence of sorts.No.
I think Big Eyes could have had a better score but it’s the outlier. Dark Shadows was a good score, Frankenweenie is pretty great I think. It’s certainly a better score than Corpse Bride IMO. And Alice is one of his best ever scores with one of his best themes.
I think Elfman, along with Desplat and Thomas Newman probably, have the best careers in Hollywood. He can do an erotic romance, indie drama, superhero blockbuster, fantasy adventure and period drama in one year. He clearly has no intention of being just the ‘fantasy guy.’
Sure he has two quirky fantasy movies next year, but he also has a renaissance drama and and violin concerto.
I think you’re giving critics and people from the internet’s opinions way too much credit. Yes, there’s a Burton/Depp/Bonham Carter/Elfman circlejerk but they are propagated by people who don’t have anything smarter to say, really. Sure, Burton’s films are not as powerful as they used to be they are still welcomed positively where I live (France/Belgium), including the critics.
I still don’t understand the hate towards Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (it’s a fun movie), Alice wasn’t good but not completely terrible. Frankenweenie and Big Eyes were not as great as we’d expected but they’re still good movies.Yes, Burton is always doing the same film or working around the same themes but that’s how he is. With a few exceptions, Scorcese or De Palma have been making the same films for 40 years. When it works, everybody loves it. When it doesn’t, it’s the “he’s just getting repetitive” routine.
And Burton hasn’t transmitted that so-called creative disease to Elfman; Elfman’s career has never been so exciting actually.
Pay attention not to transform opinions in facts.
Also, Burton has nothing to do with the next Alice movie, beside a producer credit.
It’s hard to complain when Danny’s career is as diverse as it is today.
BIG EYES was a missed opportunity, but the film got the score it deserved, even if it doesn’t register as much in the film or on disc.
Despite his lukewarm output recently, I’d rather see ANY Burton pic than most anything else.
ddddeeee Wrote:
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> Frankenweenie is pretty great I think. It’s
> certainly a better score than Corpse Bride IMO.Wow really? Ok. I do think Corpse Bride is tremendously underrated, and a completely gorgeous score that’s more complex and mature than Nightmare, thought Nightmare has those awesome songs. Frankenweenie basically has the Batman theme again.
Re. Alice, I think as producer, Burton will still most likely be the one dealing with the score again. He has more clout and a relationship with Elfman that the director doesn’t.
Ok, fair points, but I don’t think a lot of what is happening is just opinion. That people are noticing that Burton does the same thing with same people and that the output is not what it was is hardly a circlejerk. Before I even read a word of anyone’s opinion, when I heard Burton was attached to the Dumbo remake (not sure he still is?) my first thought was, oh crap Elfman is gonna have to do circus music again. It’s just the first thing that pops out nowadays and overtakes any enthusiasm for me.
No, I hope he continues to work with Burton. Even when the films aren’t top-notch, the scores are usually always wonderful (like ALICE). OK, BIG EYES was a disappointment in both areas, but I suspect and hope that was just a one-off.
At the same time, I also hope he continues doing what he’s been doing for the last decades — i.e. constantly changing types of films and sounds to explore.
The only thing I wish he toned down, is the big epic things (superhero movies etc.), and rather did more of the more laidback, intimate, calm stuff that is my absolute favourite sound of his these days.
I think you’re all pretty harsh with Big Eyes. I think its main flaw is that it sounds way too much like his Van Sant/independant movie scores but that’s a valid point from a fan perspective. On its own, the score works very well with the film.
I’ve barely seen a single superhero movie, haha, not even both Batmans he did. But superheroes are just so all over the place, I expect he can’t not be forced to do it at least every now and then. Thankfully when the movies don’t interest me at all, his scores do a pretty good job of standing on their own, for the most part.
I was really excited for Big Eyes, and the movie was ok, but my main issue with it was that it really could have been anyone, it’s a waste of Elfman. Dark Shadows had a bit more of his stamp in it, at least. Even with all the songs being the majority of the soundtrack.
This is a strange thing to complain about. Tim Burton makes a movie every 2 or 3 years. Danny Elfman has plenty of time to work with other people and other type of movies. The problem is that Elfman has chosen to focus on a lot of small movies that mainstream audiences ignore. So his Burton scores, and the occasional Sam Raimi scores, are the ones that get attention and create the illusion that he’s stuck doing the same thing.
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