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Hey everyone,
I just got back from an event at the DGA called “Coffee Talk” (part of the LA Film Fest) which consisted of an hour long conversation with Thomas Newman and Danny Elfman. It was a neat event where both guys talked shop and compared methods of working.
After the event, Dan Goldwasser and I talked with Richard Kraft (Danny’s agent) who set us straight on a couple things:
-Elfman has delivered a master for the SPIDER-MAN 2 score album, but Kraft didn’t know the release date. It will probably be later this summer. (I’d guess August, personally).
-John Debney wrote two cues, Christopher Young wrote two cues. Both are reworkings of the cues that Elfman had originally written — they do not bring radically different or original material to the score. When asked about the claim that Debney will get an “additional music by” credit at the end, Kraft said, “That is inaccurate.”
Kraft also was confident that Raimi and Elfman will work together again.
So there, you have it. About as straight from the horse’s mouth as we can ask for. Elfman also said that CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY will have lots of songs in it that he’s currently in the middle of writing, confirming that it’s more of a musical than previously thought. He flew back from London to attend the event (due largely to his respect for Newman). Newman was very charming and personable during the event while Elfman came off a bit more reserved and slightly cranky. He used the “f word” twice (he’s known for having something of a potty mouth) and let “s#*+” fly a half dozen times or so.
Very cool
I’d like to know more about the event. Do you have a recording, or something, that we can listen to?
I will post photos from the event that John took shortly.
Ryan
I’m glad to have some security. I can’t wait until it comes out!
No, I don’t have a recording or anything, sorry. Dan Goldwasser wrote a little bit about it at http://www.soundtrack.net. It was just mostly shop talk between Elfman and Newman.
They talked about sound effects and how they feel the sound people and composers are often in needless conflict. Elfman said — and Newman agreed — that there really should be someone on a movie who’s job it is to coordinate between the composer and sound team. That position doesn’t exist presently, but he said it would probably make things bettter overall. He sighted a David Lean movie where an epic battle happens; It starts off all sound effects, but then the music comes in and overtakes everything. You’re no longer hearing the sound effects, but you think that you are because it was introduced and then taken away. Newman laughed that a director will sometimes tell him to play a moment as big as he can, and that he knows he’s probably said the same thing to the sound team! That’s counter-productive and can lead to a bit of a train crash at the dub later on, with both the score and sound team blasting away.
Elfman expressed a bit of frustration with big action movies (as he’s done in the past). He said that he watches a lot of old movies (which Newman doesn’t) and in them you can hear every cue well and pretty much every note mattered. He lamented the fact that that’s just not true today, although it sometimes can be on smaller pictures. No doubt he was still stinging from his SPIDER-MAN 2 experience when he said he feels lucky sometimes if 25% pecent of what he’s doing makes it through to the audience.
There was an exchange where they talked about temp tracking. Both Elfman and Newman agreed that they like to hear the temp once — and once only — so they can hear where the director’s thinking is but then they never want to hear it again. Elfman complimented Newman for always finding an original voice; he said that it never feels like he’s doing a take off on anyone else’s material. Elfman also said that he could just never ape someone else like that. He said that he’d know (even if no one caught him) and just feel “shitty” about it. The musicans who play the music would probably know if no one else.
On the subject of the orchestra, Newman talked about how it’s strange that with Dobly and DTS being what it is — where you can take a sound effect and move it all around the theater — the recording of the orchestra has stayed pretty conservative and consistent: there’s a left, middle, and center and that’s pretty much how it’s been since stereo was introduced. Elfman jumped it and said that recently he’s been lining the basses up against the back wall and dividing the violins on either side of them… which the string players absolutely hate! Newman asked why he does this, and Elfman said that for certain kinds of action cues, he wants everything in the middle, kind of hitting you head on. Newman, intrigued by the idea, asked, “Does that work?” Elfman smiled a devilish grin and said sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t! He said that brass players are cool with wherever he puts them (“they’re off in their own world — they could give a ****!”), same with percussion, et al… but the string players have come to him and said that he might not be getting the best performance out of them from this arrangement.
I know I’m leaving stuff out here, but they also talked about how they feel movies should have less music in them overall. Newman complained that by the time a movie starts — after 15 minutes of previews — you feel so assaulted that you’re almost a little numb to the effect that sound and music can have. Elfman agreed and said that he feels that a lot of movies go so overboard that you’re somewhat immune by the end of the flick.
Newman answered one audience member’s question by saying that he really is interested in creating unusual soundscapes and textures in his work. Elfman said that that’s really an interest of his as well.
Perhaps most significantly, they both talked about how they need to stay really loose when working. They almost need to be kind of aloof toward the movie and let the ideas just kind of present themselves. Newman said that computer sequencing has helped with that because he can just play and record rather than worry about having to remember something and write it down.
All in all, Newman was very boyish and charming with a slight self-depricating edge. Elfman was a little more distant with just a hint of arrogance and anger under the surface. Elfman, who said that he has a lot of respect for Newman, was very excited, however, to compare methods of working, and often said that he feels exactly the same way when Newman would pontificate on some aspect of his craft; how he works, what he feels is wrong with the process. The moderator only asked a few questions: most of the discussion was driven by Elfman and Newman going back and forth.
And those are the broad strokes!
Cool! Thank you very much for taking the time to write all that. VERY interesting stuff, especially since both are my favorite composers.
John, that was awesome! Thank you so much! I would’ve loved to have attended. At the moment, it’s one of my biggest dreams to meet Danny Elfman in person, (and my biggest dream is to actually work with him). The Soundtrack.net report has some great photographs. Thanks again, really made my night (and I’m sure the night of many others here).
Dylan
It’s even better for me Dylan : it made my day !
Thank you so much John !!!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for all the infos… I truley hope that the album has something more intresting to offer than what can be heard on the soundtrack… because those two suites are just so disappointing. I mean, I’m a true elfman fan, and it’s actually the first time one of his scores don’t seem to intrest me… I even liked MIB2, which apparently disappointed a lot of people around here, but this two tracks, spidey suite and doc ock suite, are really hard to listen to…
Anyway, good things are on their way : songs for Oompa Loopas, and a corpse bride…Eric
Remember Eric, these suites are segments of the score put together to have 4 minutes tracks. And here, the way they are edited is really really bad (sometimes, it’s even funny). It has nothing to do with the real score, I’m sure of that.
In another topic, you seem disappointed that there are no new themes. Well, except for the Doc Ock (my God, his theme is powerful), it’s normal since this is a sequel. Plus, it seems that Raimi stayed close to the first movie’s mood, so I guess the music will be a continuation of the first score.I just recently watched the first spiderman, and was really taken with the music score. I had known that Danny did a lot of incidental music and scores for movies, but not quite so much as evidenced on this page.
I have always loved Boingo. I mean you just can’t get music like that anywhere else. Coming late to the party, but the spiderman 1 score makes me realize how fantastically talented Danny Elfman really is. The # of different themes in just the opening credits, the modulation, the originality, and his wonderful handling of orchestral instruments.
Danny does something rare as far as I’m concerned, and that is that he creates drama in his music without excessive dissonance (cf. Stravinsky or other modern composers). I also love that he utilizes french and english horns, which I love the sound of, versus the explosive sound of trumpets and trombones etc, which can easily become obnoxious when utilized excessively or poorly.
When our generation becomes the older generation, and the hoidy-toidies who run the classical stations now are gone, w/o a doubt Danny Elfman will be recognized for the incredible talent that he is.
Looking much forward to the upcoming S2 soundtrack.
P.S. The sheer volume of his work (and it’s originality) astounds me. Give me 10 more just like him, and music would never be boring again!
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