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According to this notation book I’m reading for credit in college, there is a Gypsy Hym titled “Roses in the Snow”. It dates back to the late 19th Century and was written by a violenist named Hans Becker, who traveled with a Russian Gypsy Band at the turn of the Century. He wrote jigs for the violen. In November 1892 his fifteenth’s composition “Roses In The Snow” was written. It was comprised of Strings and Woodwinds and was unique in that it was the only slow piece of music Becker’s ever written [the tempo is a great deal slower than his many jigs]. Since his death in the twenties it’s been heard mostly at Circuses [played on the calliope instead of the traditional strings and woodwinds]. It’s actually very popular in Western Europe (and Norway).
ANyway, My point of this post is that I listened to it the other night, I played it on the Piano. I’ll tell you now that I was almost knocked off of my feet. After an introduction [which mixes major/minor intervals together, creating a very dark feeling] the song began to unfold and turned into the “Love Theme” from The Forbidden Zone. This couldn’t have been a coincidence [the notes fell in exactly the same possisions). It wasn’t as Jazzy as the cue heard on MFDT, infact it never really got JAZZY. And although the ending is different, My Guess is that Danny tapped into the melody from some old memory or copied it unintentionally. IT really is a great song heard full swing.
-Gary Johnson
Or maybe Elfman was emulating Erik Satie (which he has admitted was the inspiration for that piece), who had heard the Hans Becker piece, and repeated the ambiance of the song in his Gymnopedes?
I would like to hear this Becker piece – if you know where we can listen to it please share.
Nat
also the main forbidden zone theme is identical to the dilbert cartoon theme, it’s probably elfman’s zaniest tv theme since the simpsons although nike’s barkley superhero was pretty wacky.
I can say nothing else but…PLAGERISM!
OKAY. I couldn’t find any MP3 of the song. The closest I could come is a piano rendition of it in MIDI format. You can find it here…
http://www.midifarm.com/files/midifiles/playfile.aspx?id=15907
The tempo is supposed to be slower and the broken chords are supposed to be preformed with a cello. Plus, towards the end the whole thing gets sloppy. It doesn’t sound as good on the piano as when played on strings. It’s closing was originally intended to be high, orchestrated strings with a touch of woodwinds, but when played with the piano it’s just garbled and contemporary. Sorry.
But atleast I found you a cioy of it.
^ I meant at least I found you a copy ^
It’s absolutely the same! Now, do you know where I can find any information on Hans Becker online (I’ve looked but no luck) or give me the title of the book you are reading.
It’s note for note! Danny had to have heard this somewhere. Wow, intersting thing you’ve stumbled on God_AWFUL_basterd.
Thank you for sharing.
Nat
After listening to this piece again I have come to a couple of conclusions:
1. Having not heard any other piece by Hans Becker, I can say that he doesn’t seem to have any formal training. My reason for this is because of the total lack of form in this piece, also it sound improvised. You would expect some kind of cohesion in a piece that is over 4 minutes (and more if it’s suppose to be slower). The piece works very poorly, structurally speaking.
2. I also heard “attempts” at other Elfman themes in the piece: Pee-Wee and Black Beauty.
3. God_AWFUL_baster might be living up to his name?
I don’t know exactly where I stand on this yet, but if it is real it’s rather odd. I’m going to check in the New Groves within the next couple of days to see if Hans Becker is listed.
I already told you that this MIDI is crappily put together. The original piece is played over strings and doesn’t sound as jazzy. I’m thinking that who ever made it was actually going for the Forbidden Zone sound. So…
1) The “Forbidden Zone” motif was originally slurred together on an entirely different note (on Oboe–mind you). Then It slowed down. The ORIGINAL didn’t sound as much like Elfman’s RECORDING as this one did. (I heard attempts at the piano style Elfman employed)
2) The END of the midi did sound improvised because it probably was. As I told you, The Later half totally went to hell and sounded almost nothing like the original end of the song (which depended on violen and cello and lots of tremelo). There were also flute riffs that weren’t apparent here.
3) The Book is called “Gypsy Band”. It is a Historical Guide that also helps one learn how to master the Viola and the Cello. It contains musical notation and historical notes. It’s available on McGraw/Hill for roughly 40 dollars. Check your local Books A’ Million.
4) I agree that who ever preformed that piece screwed up royally (and had NO formal training). But the Composer Did.
PS: The Segues to each thematic piece [or so] were structurally poor. But you have to keep in mind that the song was split into three pieces and this MIDI just threw them all together without thinking about it (Well, atleast two — the last part is half there).
Oh ok, then that would make a lot more since.
Do you know if anybody has attempted to record any of Becker’s pieces?
I have an old copy of SCHWANN Opus complete CD guide and found none from him, but then again it’s a 1997 issue.I would really like to hear the actual piece. I have a Books-A-Million in my town, but they are pretty hit-and-miss on scores (found Brahms Complete Concertos in a budget bin, but no other scores).
Sorry if I came off as a bit dismissive the second time around, but that Midi didn’t do that piece any justice.
Thanks for you help God-AWFUL_bastard.
Nat who would be amazed at the similarities if it turns out to be true.
P.S. I seems like the person who put together the MIDI did know Elfman’s work though.
I think That Joel McNeely and his orchestra preformed a few. I can’t elaborate because I can’t remember.
Actually, I know this Hans Becker piece. The end of it actually resembles Black Beauty (although I never heard the Pee-Wee theme, myself). Even though the midi sucked, The BLACK BEAUTY sounding notes are actually there in the original. The Theme was punctuated on high whining violen (almost inaudible). In this MIDI the sound is louder, but sloppier.
If you MUST spell plagiarism, please do it right.
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