The Simpsons, Info?

[Anonymous]

so elfman fans, can anyone direct me to some info about the simpsons theme?

maybe an interview with elfman or some musical analysis? (i`ll buy the score when i get paid this month)

i have to give a lecture on it tomorrow (amongst other things, like mozarts piano concerto 21, nirvana`s smells like teen spirit and possibly james horners “commando” theme just for fun, however i cant find a copy of it anywhere so i might just have to play it from memory)

i just spoke to someone who said elfman came up with the simpsons theme in flash of inspiration (i.e. he wrote it quickly and it all came together) but the person couldnt remember where this info came from. (doh! as homer would say)

is this true?, got a source?

what do people think about the harmony in this piece?, lydian, or lydian dominant or octatonic? (or a bit of all of them?)

at first i thought it was all octatonic, then i played over the piece a little bit (dl`d from this site, thanks) and thought actually its more like lydian dominant (because the major 2nd seems to work, a bit), or maybe its even just lydian with a flat 7 accidental. (it could be that its mostly lydian dominant but some of the fast string parts and ornamentation use the octatonic, im not sure, my ear isnt good enough to catch stuff that fast, maybe i should time stretch it, i think i will if cant get any info prior to getting the score)

one reason i think elfman may have used the octatonic consciously is his connection to russian music (and “impressionist” french stuff which used similar harmonic resources, dont let debussy hear you call him an “impressionist” though, maybe he is listening in composer heaven and wont be happy about it)

so its probably polymodal to some extent, i`ll go with that for tomorrow, i like room for intepretation, the fact its not clear what the harmony is exactly is part of its charm (and its case in point example about musical analysis being a matter of opinion)

however i would like to see the score and have a look at whats going on. (without spending ages time stretching the piece and writing it all down)

anyone familiar with harmony and the simpsons piece or does anyone have any links about it?? (i`ll give the lecture tomorrow and go with what i have, then when i find out more i`ll cover the piece again)

its a great piece anyway, congrats/thanks to mr elfman. (one reason im including it in the lecture is that its an example of unsual harmony being “catchy” and singable, like mozarts piano concerto and its promenent use of accidentals such as the flat9 and using a minor 3rd over a major chord, and smells like teen spirit with its symettrical pitch collection and heavy use of the 9th interval in the vocal melody……all these things give music its character and identity and set some writers of music apart from the rest, even if they dont know technically what they are doing, if it sounds right it is right)

[Ryan Keaveney]

From an L.A. Times article:

” Elfman met in 1989 with the cartoon’s creator, Matt Groening, who shared sketches of Homer, Bart, et al. “I told him, ‘If you want something retro, I have it. If you want contemporary, I’m the wrong guy.” Groening wanted retro. Elfman jokes that the manic little riff he conceived earns him $11.50 every time it’s played, no matter where in the world. “I met some artists [in India] and we were talking about American movies and I mentioned a few of my projects,” he says. “Not one of them registered, until I mentioned ‘The Simpsons.’ Then their faces lit up. They were really impressed by that.”

You can find lots of Elfman interviews at The Elfman Zone:

http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/elfman/

Ryan

[KWashi]

I can’t add too much except that the motif in the woodwinds and later in the strings (maybe even the xylophones) where it runs up and all around and down the scale is one of Elfman’s trademarks in his early scores and can be found in “Roof Fight” in “Batman”, “Ballet De Suburbia” in “Edward Scissorhands” and in “Dr. Finklestein/In the Forest” from “The Nightmare Before Christmas”…..at least, I hear similarities in all of those tracks, but I may be wrong.

[mootum]

Excerpt from Matt Groening’s liner notes of the CD “The Simpsons: Songs in the Key of Springfield”:

“We approached Danny Elfman, whose career I’d been following since I saw him perform as the leader of The Mystic Knights Of The Oingo Boingo (best described as an avant-garde Cab Calloway-on-Mars vaudeville ensemble) at the Whiskey-a-Go-Go on the Sunset Strip in the late ’70s. Elfman had recently composed the soundtrack to Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure, and I knew he’d be perfect.

“I gave Elfman what I called a ‘flavors’ tape, featuring the kind of sound I wanted for The Simpsons theme. The tape included The Jetsons theme, selections from Nino Rota’s Juliet Of The Spirits, a Remington electric shaver jingle by Frank Zappa, some easy-listening music by Esquivel, and a teach-your-parrot-to-talk record.

“Elfman gave it a listen and said, ‘I know exactly what you’re looking for.’

“A month later we were recording the now-famous Simpsons theme on the 20th Century-Fox lot with a huge orchestra. I think all the producers were a little nervous and fidgety about the untrendy audactiy of the music. But then-executive producer James L. Brooks came in, listened a bit, then said, ‘My God! This is great! This is lemmings-marching-to-their-death music!'”

[evil-dead]

I don’t have a score, and I know Elfman doesn’t consciously think about modes and symmetrical scales, but I think it’s safe to say Lydian dominant – listen to the sax break.

[Anonymous]

thanks for the info everyone, im going to order the score this week methinks (got paid today)

agreed about lydian dominant, i was playing it over last night and i got students to try and work it out by ear from the recording today (they did well, apart from the flat7 at the end of the main melody, only one one got that) it seems the best box to put to harmony in. (so to speak)

however i think i can hear some whole tone and possibly octatonic stuff going on in some of the ornamentation, i`ll wait till i get the score and have a look. (im biased towards the octatonic at the moment so i tend to see it perhaps where its not, lol, blame my penchant for messiaen, mode2)

im surprised elfman does not think about scales and modes when he writes etc, how much does he orchestrate the music? (does he just come up with the melody and/or ostinato and overall form etc?)

which other film composers dont orchestrate their music? (actually who`s music it is becomes a question in such circumstances)

(note: i dont know very much about soundtrack music, i like some of it, bernard herrman and lalo shifrin particularily)

[Anonymous]

ok i just read that elfman site that rkeaveney linked to (thanks)

it “demythologises” the idea that elfman is a “hummer” and gives some detail about his process. (im still a bit confused, it sounds more like the person who orchestrates elfmans stuff is more of a scribe, writing out parts etc)

this composer versus orchestrator stuff seems an odd division of labour, i wonder why its common in the film industry? (time = money?)

[Anonymous]

oh, just saw a thread further back on this board about the lack of a full score for the simpsons.

doh (potential purchase cancelled)

[evil-dead]

I would try and get a piano transcription or an arrangement for concert band (if you want to pay for it). Here’s a concert band arrangement for real cheap:

http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/book.asp?ppn=BKWBWBRP1013C

Not the exact orchestration (Steve Bartek orchestrates all his stuff anyway). but you can get an idea of the harmony. As far as I’ve read, he composes via sequencers (digital performer, etc) which then translate whats written into notated score, which is then cleaned up and orchestrated (Bartek says he rarely alters any notes, Elfman instinctually knows what sounds good in what range). I’m sure there are a whole lot of snippets of whole tone in there as fills, in fact listening to it right now I’m sure of it. Sticking to just lydian dominant doesn’t seem like Elfman, he always changes it up (and modulates in minor thirds). You should check out Serenada Schizophrana, his concert work. It’s very Herrmannesque at times, with a touch of whomever would be the result of a hypothetical Copland-Shostakovich mutant love child (he quoted Shostakovich’s Jazz Suite as inspiration – you can definitely hear some of it with the standard Ellington flavor as well). I hope that score is what it claims to be, because although an arrangement, 7 bucks aint bad. Hope that helps.

[evil-dead]

also I take it you’re from the UK. What part? I used tolive there up by Blackpool.

[Anonymous]

thanks for that info evil-dead, i`ll check out that score and the elfman work you suggest (and thanks to the person who posted the herrmann docu on youtube, i watched that last night, v interesting)

yes im in uk, birmingham to be exact. (i know blackpool a bit, i did a couple of days work up there sitting in a bank analysing customer behaviour for a consulting firm, im glad i dont do that job any more lol, it was really boring and you had to wear a suit etc)

re orchestration, it makes sense i suppose, its more or less manual labour to translate a computer printed score into something playable and given the short turnaround time in commercial cinema i can see why composers take the orchestrator option

if elfman gets it right most of the time and notes dont have to be changed that much i would call it more of a scribes role really. (in which case its pretty insulting and silly to call elfman a “hummer”)

[Danny Burton]

Elfman actually writes down his music on paper.

Look in Blunt’s site where he has a sheet of a Batman Returns cue done by hand by Elfman.

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