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This was going to be originally about “Darkman” only, but I decided to broaden it a little. I am currently in the mood to discuss “Hellboy II: The Golden Army”. How about you guys?
What the hell, sure.
I honestly wasn’t that taken with HELLBOY 2 when I first heard it, but it eventually grew into my favorite score Elfman did in 2008. I was initially disappointed that the thematic writing isn’t as clear or as strong as that of WANTED or STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, but upon close examination, I think the writing in HELLBOY 2 is much richer. The main misstep, I think, is that Hellboy himself has a very muted three- note motif where something a little more distinctive could have maybe been used. There’s a big-big statement of the theme that sounds like it was recorded with no particular scene in mind, and used wherever the filmmakers thought it was needed in the mix (in particular the first time we see the adult Hellboy, after Abe and Jeffrey Tambor walk through the monster hallway toward the beginning the flick.
I love the Golden Army theme itself, and am a little sad that it doesn’t get more of a work-out in the score. The various other motifs are really complicated and rewarding once you get to know them.
Favorite tracks are:
Father And Son (amazing!)
A Troll Market
and In The Army ChamberWhen I first listened to the score, I was very disappointed. “Where are the themes?” I wondered. “All I hear is noise!” However, back then (in August), I had yet to realize that scores may not necessarily “grab you” on the first listen. I think it took five full playthroughs of “Hellboy II: The Golden Army” for me to even begin to appreciate it.
I would be listening when I realized (gasp) I found a motiv in Track One! E Gadd, it is in Track Two, as well! And in Track Three! Hey, another motiv! How did I miss these earlier? By the end of the album: “Boy, was I wrong! I love this score!”I have listened to it far more times since then, and I am still discovering more and more about this score, aomething I consider to be good.
I liken Danny Elfman’s recent output (and some of John Williams’, as well) to a Hershey bar wrapped in tin foil. Upon first glance, one sees nothing but a non-descript (albeit shiny) object. However, upon unravelling that non-descript veil, one finally notices the sweet, sweet goodness in front of you the entire time. You just needed to look a bit harder.
Well, that is more than you old folks wanted to know, I am sure.
Oh, and I got “Nightbreed” in the mail today, but I have yet to listen to it.
The score for Hellboy II really had to grow on me considering I loved What Marco Beltrami did in the first one. Once I started to really listen, I fell in love with it fairly quickly. My favorite cue on the album has got to be “Mein Herring” when the choir comes in. No matter how many times I’ve heard it, it cracks me up! Reminds me of Elfman’s earlier writing when He wasn’t afraid to go goofy all of a sudden.
HELLBOY II is one of those scores that is brilliant on another level — the Elfman Level, as I’ll call it. The expansive orchestral writing (in the last 3rd of the album particularly) is really something to behold. If you’d only heard the score within the film you’d be missing it’s considerable charms, as the mix is terrible. I think perhaps the addition of one or two of those mini HB fanfares might have put the album really over the top, but as it is, it’s one of the best fantasy efforts of the year, easily.
I’ll second (or third…fourth?) the consensus that this score had to grow on me, as well. I was disappointed initially in the lack of really interesting and memorable themes. In that area, I think we were spoiled by Elfman’s contributions to Standard Operating Procedure and Wanted — especially Wanted, which is still my favorite score of Elfman’s from 2008. But once I kind of “figured out” what Elfman was doing with Hellboy II, my enjoyment of it grew with each successive listening.
Some of my favorite cues include “Father and Son,” “In the Army Chamber,” and “Finale.” The last thirty seconds or so of “A Dilemma” is beautiful. It was also interesting the way he began to morph the Prince’s (and Princess’s) theme during “Finale” into one of his Edward Scissorhands themes, but it wasn’t done in a lazy, ripoff-ish way. I do wish “Hellboy II Titles” was much higher in the film’s mix; that was disappointing. “Where Fairies Dwell” is another favorite cue from this score. It’s so delightfully eerie and uncomfortable.
I believe Hellboy II to be Elfman’s most underrated score of 2008. It didn’t get a lot of talk when it should’ve. I thought it was one of if not the best score of the summer and one of the best of the year. I was prepared for the score to be dense. These days Elfman writes dense and complex even for summer action fare, but I enjoyed every track. Eventhough some tracks are edited down. Like the fairies track as well as the cue where Hellboy fights Mr. Wink. I was pleased with the score and believe there was no filler cues. Also anyone ever put “hallway cruise” with the actual scene. I tried it on my DVD with the sound in and out and it sounded fine.
I also got a question. What did Elfman think of this movie and will he continue to work with Del Toro ?
B/c I’ve never seen him talk a lot about HB2 or Del Toro and never seen any pictures of him at the premiere.
When I read interviews about HB2 it always centered around Wanted since they were opening around the same time. He seemed more excited for that movie and working with Timur.There’s always the likelihood that Elfman will work with Del Toro on the Universal monster movies, but he is not scoring THE HOBBIT.
If I recall correctly, “Hellboy II: The Golden Army” was a mutually pleasant experience for Guillermo and Danny.
I think there are a lot of people who are willing to dismiss Hellboy 2 for not having strong thematic material without really listing to the music. Maybe Elfman gives the listeners too much credit. His Hellboy theme has so much texture over it that it can be hard to comprehend if you don’t — God forbid — actually listen to the music, all of it — every level.
Hellboy is such a fun score. Del Toro really deserves a lot of credit for letting Elfman score it like a Ray Harryhausen movie. It looks like Elfman has found another great collaborator.
I apologize for abruptly changing the subject, but I just listened to Danny Elfman’s two “Chicago” pieces. They are incredible! I love Jazz, and I think Danny Elfman is the best writer of Jazz today, part of the reason he is my second-favorite composer (no one can beat John Williams, sorry). Though I am tempted to purchase the album just for those two Tracks, I shall gladly keep myself in check. A shame that his music was ignored by far too many. I scroll through eight pages of reviews, and I cannot even find five mentions of Danny Elfman! And if so, it is usually: “It is an instrumental, therefore it is garbage. Catherine Zeta-Jones and Queen Latifah are awesome!”Agggggh!
I really enjoy Roxie’s Suite where Elfman displays his ability and talent to write fun and nervous jazz from the 20’s but After midnight sounds too much like a Duke Ellington’s leftover to me (Mood Indigo anyone ?).
Didn’t Chicago receive a BAFTA (the British equivalent of the Oscar) nomination that included Danny Elfman in the nomination? I know the BAFTA has different qualifications than the Oscar so a lot of this nomination was because of the songs, but still Danny got mentioned in the nomination if I remember correctly.
Now…. Don’t get me wrong.. I love Elfman’s writing… But… To say he is the best Jazz writer of Today would be a big stretch… He knows his stuff… But there are so many people alive today that just do Jazz for a living… Elfman is just a footnote in the Jazz composing world… I apologize for offending anyone but it’s kinda true.. You may have stretched it, Nick, a little to far.. at least for my opinion.. Elfman is still My FAVORITE composer… but not the best Jazz writer.
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Well, perhaps not the “best”, per se, but I know I am in for in a treat when I see “Jazz” followed or preceded by “Danny Elfman”.
I took Nick’s comment to mean the best for jazz FILM SCORING. Jazz for film and jazz in clubs is as different as Orchestral composition for film and Orchestral composition for the concert hall. Take the Serenda Schizophrena for example. Danny was able to develop themes over a period of time. Blue Strings is over ten minutes long! Then listen to Red Dragon. The theme takes about 20 seconds. The demands are different.
I would just like to add that if I sounded combative just now, I apologize. Iwas reading comments on a different site just now that were close to drawing blood and I think It might have started to rub off on me. The combativeness, not the blood.
No, no, you did not seem combative at all. And yes, Danny Elfman is the best when it comes to Jazz film scoring. He probably beats even John Williams in that regard. The only problem is that it never seems to be enough! I want a film to be released that would necessitate an all-Jazz score for Danny Elfman. I can dream….
Okay. I’m going to switch subjects. I just found a copy of Midnight Run and boy If I didn’t already know that it was done by Danny, I never would have guessed! I know for me, one of the reasons I purchase an Elfman disc is for that signature sound that is in everything he does. I’m also amazed at how diverse he has gotten within that sound, but every so often He does something so atypical of him that it immediately stands out. I had a similar reaction to the Kingdom although not as extreme because it reminded me slightly of Proof Of Life. Now if only someone would release a score for Hot To Trot!
To be honest, I hate “The Kingdom”, and I will hopefully always consider it to be his worst score. So, how is “Midnight Run”?
Really.. I loved Kingdom… Not the score alone, but it fit the movie very well.. Elfman made it different and it was a cool melodic score.. It’s not really interesting to listen to on your iPod as opposed to somethin’ like, lets say, Batman is.. but according to the film, I think it was great… thinking back to the movie itself, I wouldn’t want anything different.
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Oh, it fits the film perfectly, that I will not argue with. Whether or not I find it a good listening experience is an entirely other matter. I can barely bring myself to listen to the entire Disk, I just do not like it.
Anyways, I have been listening to “Serenada Schizophrana” and “Mission: Impossible” today. Both are wonderful, I would say, for entirely different reasons. By the way, I assume no one knows if or when “Rabbit and Rogue” would be recorded, no?
I like the main theme for both Charlie and The Chocolate factory, and Corpse Bride.
I think there’s a bit of Charlie’s theme in Corpse Bride, not sure if it was deliberate or Danny having some fun
In Corpse Bride Main Title, between 55secs-1min I think I can hear some Charlie’s influence.
Or maybe I am wrong, what do you guys think?
rex
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