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I’ll criticize Elfman when it’s due and it’s definitely due here, dude(s). It seems like you guys are members of a cult where Elfman can do no wrong. Snap out of it! Being a fan is one thing, but blind devotion and mindless adherence is retarded.
Red Dragon was much more cohesive than Hellboy II. You should listen to it and not just take my word for it.
Just because I say it has to be clear and concise doesn’t mean it has to be dull or watered down. Dead Presidents certainly contained a unifying motif in the percussion. So does practically every other Elfman score. Hellboy II’s thematic ideas are nebulous and meandering — the opposite of concise and defined. Every time I listen through the score I catch a little whiff of something and ask, “Is this what he wants me to pay attention to?” but then he moves on to play with a new little motif. Over and over I think, “Okay, this is what he wants me to hear and follow…” but he lets it go and an instant later comes up with something else. There’s so much material here that the important points he wishes to stress become lost…and in the process I lose my interest in listening.
I applaud you demanding more of your film scores — depth, creativity, construction, planning, and execution all should be in top form and it’s lacking in the majority of film scores today.
For Hellboy II the creativity is there. The complexity is there. The skilled construction is there. Somewhere along the line, the focus was lost and as a result the score meanders from bit to bit without a unifying identity. This isn’t a symphony and it isn’t a concert work — it’s a film score, meant to tell the audience what they’re supposed to feel so it helps the film communicate with the audience. After listening to Hellboy II I don’t know what to feel.
Just because it contains “Elfmanisms” doesn’t make it a good score. A clear, concise thematic representation is what’s needed to make an imprint on the viewer and the listener. This is a wash of Elfman noise!
I’ve always had a problem with Elfman scores that use a very small melodic range — the main motif in Frighteners as well as Red Dragon. The theme for Hellboy II is a lot more like Red Dragon — the violin ostinati with the brass/basses playing the half note melody. That kind of thematic structure isn’t very interesting and is difficult for the listener to dissect, especially when you hear it in the film. Also, the theme tends to avoid changing keys and seems stuck in one key. The melody doesn’t lend itself to change keys very often, therefore losing much of Elfman’s jagged-yet-beautiful chord progressions.
Overall I think it’s merely adequate, like Red Dragon — pretty dry and dense, without many immediately accessible hooks that would lead to dissection of the themes. The only interesting thing here so far is the use of Theremin and the metal percussion used.
I would have thought that Del Toro’s visual style would have elicited a much more engaging score from Elfman, since he’s driven by visuals. My only fear is that when an Elfman score is lackluster it’s usually because the movie is just as bad…
As for thematic elements in Hellboy II — there weren’t many. The title theme shows up in only a couple places in the score. Most of the score seems disconnected from thematic elements — most of it is mindless action music ala Planet of the Apes and MIB II.
I’ve listened to the whole thing about 3 times now. Really sub-par effort. Like MIB II, only with all the juicy MIB theme parts taken out.
Goldsmith used large ensembles (particularly the horn sections) to great effect in action/thriller scores — Basic Instinct for example.
I’m really distraught over the thinness of the recordings. Even if he’s using a more intimate ensemble for the scores, the mixing still sounds sub-par. The stereo imaging, channel separation and instrument placement are INCREDIBLY disappointing. Take Men in Black for example — violins on the left, violas clearly slightly placed to the right, cellos and basses clearly to the right. There is also a crispness missing from the latest recordings. The violin harmonics don’t seem as bright and clear as they usually are.
I’ve noticed a similar decline in recording quality from Williams as well — the difference between the London recordings for the first three Indiana Jones films and the 4th film are astounding. Maybe Los Angeles is just making some really BAD recordings these days?
Btw, who was the recording engineer on the score? For a long time it was Shawn Murphy…
I’ve noticed a big change in the recording quality of Elfman’s scores as of late — a trend toward much more dry and thin sounding ensembles. I don’t know if this is intentional. In his action cues he seems to be mixing his strings in one channel, or placing them in the center instead of the normal placement. Maybe he’s fed up with the bombast of the sound effects in the final movie mix?
Starting with Serenada Schizophrana I noticed that while the ensemble is large, the recording seemed to lack the warmth and fluidity of Spiderman. (Planet of the Apes is another good example of how the recording was lackluster).
Has anyone else noticed this?
So, I make a comment that the score for Hellboy 2 sounds lacking, from what I’ve heard, and you attack me for even registering? Way to go man…
Hrm…I dunno about the Frighteners. I think it’s a mishmash of a bunch of 80’s and 90’s scores. I hear a lot of Goldsmith in there…”Poltergeist” and a lot of influence from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Just listen to http://www.jonvandergriff.com/media/music/mp3/rotg/rotg11_ambush_in_k.mp3
My favorite track is the one he calls “Portals”. http://www.jonvandergriff.com/media/music/mp3/rotg/rotg21_portals.mp3
