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Dang, I meant “The Abduction from the Seraglio”.
Dang, I meant *Joseph* Haydn.
Sorry to have inflamed — that was not my intention. Contrary to your belief, I did not intend to “beg” for your response (which, in my defense was unnecessarily acid) – although, having re-read my original post it is easy to see why it was taken that way. I did intend it in good humour – I was writing when I was in a bad mood and that came out in the post.
You have made several good points: there was a period of time where Mozart was not in the employ of the nobles. There was a larger period of time where he was. Is taking commissions freelancing? Maybe it’s me who misunderstands this time, but wouldn’t freelancing be writing for oneself – not writing to fulfil a commission?
Colloredo was an Austrian… again, sorry, you were right here.
HOWEVER –
“How good for you. Besides that, you are a classically trained Singer/Pianist/Cellist/Composer. Maybe you’re really good at playing tennis and a fantastic cook too? Just go ahead and let us know if it makes you feel better.”
Why did you bring this up? Reread the thread. Half of the posts ended with the posters telling us what they play. I was just hopping on the bandwagon. Why is it necessary to be so acid, by the way? We are all music lovers here – surely my opposition to Mozart is not a personal affront to you.
“Where did I say “The Magic Flute” was atonal? “
You said that Mozart’s later work was heading towards the atonal. Magic Flute was one of the last things he wrote (1791). An avid Mozartian such as yourself will know he died on the 5th December of that year. At 12:55 a.m.
“>I am familiar with his work, so don’t assume I’m just an uneducated malcontent.
Where did I assume that? “Don’t was implying in the future – I posted this as a reminder that I do know Mozart’s music well, and that I am not just a malcontent trying to stir up trouble, which, I stress, I’m not ~ I was trying to voice my opinion.
And as for the infamous “Mozart is a hack” comment: I stand by my belief that he was not one of the great composers. I admit that my wording was poor. I will acknowledge that he had some uses (introducing regional dialect to libretti etc.). I will acknowledge that people like him. I have no problem with this – I stress, keep your opinions, I will keep mine. What I cannot acknowledge is that he deserves the attention that he has gained. It is what I like to call “offensively inoffensive music”.
Maybe my anger stems from having his music forced down my throat by every teacher/institution I have belonged to. There are only so many times you can play Eine Kleine Nachtmusic, or sing “O Isis und Osiris” before you go crazy.
My final comment: I don’t care to discuss this here any more, if only as a courtesy to the people who are here to discuss Elfman, not Mozart. However, please, PLEASE email me to discuss further. I want to know what the interest is. What is it about Mozart that you find even vaguely interesting. All I request is that you drop the ‘tude, and refrain from calling me an idiot, or a s h i t-stirrer, or imply that I “need help” for expressing my opinion on a topic being discussed. My email is attached to my name above.
Dang, I meant “Eine Kleine Nachtmusik”.
Also, sorry if it sounds angry again — I don’t intend to sound acid, and I was trying to be more rational and explain myself properly. I sincerely want you to email me and tell me why you find Mozart’s music interesting. Please do.
Well…
I’m sorry for my snide remarks. I’m not that big a Mozart lover as you may think – if I had to choose, I’d rather listen to a Webern string quartet than to a Mozart string quartet. However, I do believe he did write a lot of good music, and while I basically agree with everything else you’ve said in your initial post (you know, about Schönberg and Ravel – who, in my opinion, is one of the best orchestrators of all time – and even about Mozart not being that great a composer as a lot of people believe), you have to understand that your “hack”-comment was a bit too harsh and arrogant sounding.
That may explain the acid.>I don’t care to discuss this here any more, if only as a courtesy to the people who are here to discuss Elfman, not Mozart.
Sounds fair to me. Well, let’s put an end to it then.
Nin
It just sounded like yout thought your opinion was god in your initial post J.R., but I’m glad that explained it. And yeah, it was that “Hack” remark that kinda spawned the responce I think. As I said before, I’m not really a fan of Mozart (or any classical period composer for that matter), I’m more into Baroque and Romantic era music, but my number 1 is (of course) film. I just think that Mozart was probably great for his time, like the way I look at Elfman, so I respect that. For some reason I always feel like I need to defend composers…probably why I get into alot of fights, but it just rubs me the wrong way when anyone says that a composer’s work is crap, which may be true to them but not to others, and to have no respect for these people who work very hard to bring us great music is something that I wish more people had.
On the other hand, there are a few FILM composers that I don’t respect, because they don’t respect thier medium, and do not score a film as it really needs to be, which makes the film worse. For example, a composer who uses bland gimicks throughout a score over and over (like in a horror movie where you will constantly hear string snaps even though all that is happening is some guy is reading a book), or a composer who reuses the music from a different film in practically the same way (can we say unique atmosphere?). But even these things are my opinion, and some people may like that…I just can’t see how…
Knight
first off, I wanna just establish that I have only SKIMMED this thread because I don’t have time at the moment to read the whole thing, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
first off, it’s totally unfair to be judgemental towards other composers by saying that their work was “simple” or “followed the same I IV V I chord pattern because music of the past has EVOLVED into what it is today. If it were not what the people had wanted back then, then those composers wouldn’t be known today. If you want to say that Bach is simple…go ahead. Talk out of your ass. Anyone who has played him can tell you otherwise. The difference between Bach and Prokofiev is simply several hundred years. The music that Bach wrote, and that Baroque composers wrote, had to be a base for other composers to work with. You can’t make something out of nothing. EVERY composer and EVERY musician who has EVER lived has been influenced by something that came before them, and if you had nothing to begin with, how can you stray from it and create something new? Bach and Mozart are more similar than Bach and Chopin, because they’re closer together, but the closer you come to contemporary music, the more you can trace the gradual evolution. Comparing two completely different genres and music that severed completely different purposes is unfair. Bach wrote a lot of music for church, and Danny writes his for film. How can you compare the two and say something like “would Beethoven’s 9th symphony have done as well in Spiderman”? well it wouldn’t be serving its purpose, therefore Beethoven wouldn’t be writing that symphony. Concerti and choir pieces, symphonies and waltzes, you can’t compare them against each other, and especially from different time periods, and say one is “better” than the other because you prefer what one has that the other doesn’t.
And anyone who says that Mozart wasn’t a genius is a moron. And he DIDN’T only use a plain, simple chord progression. Take a piece of his music and write down the chords as you go. He liked to stray and throw in something cute here and there or something unexpected. He knew what the audience liked to hear. And I believe that THAT is the most important part of composing. Composers have always done what they love ultimately to earn a living, and if you can deliver what your audience wants to hear, you have done your job well. And before you rag on him, why don’t YOU go and try to compose something perfect right out of your head without making a single correction? And one who wants to argue that it is not perfect the way it is, what note would you change in any of his pieces? It’s not possible to think of something better for that piece than what he had put.
This is a really petty argument. How boring would music be if it was all only what you liked to hear? One of the things that makes music so great and what makes it ART is the fact that it’s all objective and all about personal preference, and great art can NOT be compared. Any artist who can create something they love while also providing something worthwhile to their audience is a complete success in my eyes.
sorry about all the misspelled / incorrect words. I didn’t realize how tired I was until I read through my post. I feel dumb. :p
Didn’t we close this thread? A challenge for you blue_rhapsody (please complete via email) – tell me what about Mozart’s music you find interesting. Please.
Please read the whole thread before you post things like this. We’ve had closure. Nin, does this sound like someone bringing up old hat to cause arguments to you as well? Also, please do, as knight and Nin Cherry have, try to respect my right to dislike the music of Mozart – that means not calling me a moron for having that opinion.
Btw, knight, I agree with you with about composing entirely with gimmicks – totally bland. I’d love to trade scores with you one day and hear what you think.
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