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Okay, Danny’s not involved and I don’t think a Batman movie will ever reach the stylistic peak that Burton brought to the series again… but I have to say this…
The Dark Knight looks interesting. Nicholson was brilliant as the Joker and I laughed when I heard Heath Ledger would play the character in the upcoming sequel… but I’m surprised by what I’ve seen so far…
For a non-Burton Batman film, Ledger’s Joker looks a hell of a lot like something from Burton’s mind. Ledger’s performance, too, is unlike Nicholson’s but very good (from what I’ve seen)
What do you think? Am I wrong?
– Flynn
Creepy. It would look great within the context of a realistic movie, but trying to make Batman look like a serious non-fiction drama is retarded.
Totally agreed. When they announced the casting of Ledger, I was highly skeptical. Even some of the early photos of him in character left me unsatisfied. But that trailer, wow! I was not really all that excited for this movie until I saw that thing. Ledger’s Joker looks completely insane in a frightening way, unlike Nicholson’s playfully insane Joker.
I’m really pumped for this movie now, especially with no competition from the Hulk movie yet. But then there’s “Iron Man”… anyway this summer will be fantastic. (to add some Elfman to the topic, he’s scoring two of this summer’s big movies! Yay! And, I can dream, perhaps Hulk too? James Newton Howard managed a bazillion movies all at once!)
Ledger’s performance, too, is unlike Nicholson’s but very good (from what I’ve seen)
What would you say differentiates Nicholson’s performance from Ledger’s?
From what I’ve seen (the key words), Ledger’s performance employs a new voice (with a dry cadence), new movement (apparently based off of a character in A Clockwork Orange) and (duh) different make-up. It’s just another take.
Yeah. I say that this is the sort of edge Burton lacks nowadays…
What about Sweeney Todd? That is one of his edgiest films, ever.
Considering that Burton’s recent efforts also include “Planet of the Apes,” “Big Fish,” “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,” Monsterhead does have a legitimate argument, “Sweeney Todd” notwithstanding.
Considering that Burton’s recent efforts also include “Planet of the Apes,”
Planet of the Apes? That was 7 years ago.
Could have been and edgy film, but Burton just doesn’t cut it anymore. But I’ve been through this rant on this message board before…
Ugggghhhh…isn’t he remaking FRANKENWEENIE into a full-length 3D stop-motion animated movie next? I’ll go see it, but man, he does nothing that’s remotely interesting anymore. *Maybe* I’ll watch Sweeney Todd again, but that movie should have been something incredible.
Could have been and edgy film, but Burton just doesn’t cut it anymore.
So, what makes a film edgy?
Ugggghhhh…isn’t he remaking FRANKENWEENIE into a full-length 3D stop-motion animated movie next? I’ll go see it, but man, he does nothing that’s remotely interesting anymore.
Then for God’s sake, don’t go see it if you don’t like what Burton’s been putting out there. (It’s hard for me to believe a Tim Burton fan not liking Corpse Bride or Big Fish.)
I feel what makes a film edgy is luring your audience, challenging their perceptions and shocking them, but in an entertaining way. I don’t feel that with Burton anymore. No personal stamp. Now when I watch other directors I love: The Coehn Brothers, David Cronenberg, Lynch – I can see their artistry – but with Burton, it feels so half-assed.
What pains me is that I am such a Burton fan. But when I watch his stuff now, I see so little of what made me a fan. While other directors I admire continue to grow, I feel like Timmy is just spinning his wheels…
I see his films not because I want to complain, but because I want to see him grow creatively. I liked BIG FISH, but I felt frustrated. Still, plenty to love about it. Kinks and all. I thought CHARLIE was good, but felt in-sincere. COPRSPE BRIDE was very good. That was what I expected. SWEENEY was going to be the real one for me, but it just left me cold…
I feel what makes a film edgy is luring your audience, challenging their perceptions and shocking them, but in an entertaining way.
I think you just described Sweeney Todd. Anyway, do you attribute that same definition to Nolan’s Batman?
I don’t feel that with Burton anymore. No personal stamp.
I disagree. Some would argue that Burton personalizes too much of himself when developing his characters, in that, they’re all misunderstood misfits. And as for his visual stamp, Tim Burton has, arguably, the most identifiable visual stamp of any director, living or dead.
Monsterhead Wrote:
> I feel what makes a film edgy is luring your
> audience, challenging their perceptions and
> shocking them, but in an entertaining way. I
> don’t feel that with Burton anymore. No personal
> stamp. Now when I watch other directors I love:
> The Coehn Brothers, David Cronenberg, Lynch – I
> can see their artistry – but with Burton, it feels
> so half-assed.
>
> What pains me is that I am such a Burton fan. But
> when I watch his stuff now, I see so little of
> what made me a fan. While other directors I
> admire continue to grow, I feel like Timmy is just
> spinning his wheels…
>
> I see his films not because I want to complain,
> but because I want to see him grow creatively. I
> liked BIG FISH, but I felt frustrated. Still,
> plenty to love about it. Kinks and all. I
> thought CHARLIE was good, but felt in-sincere.
> COPRSPE BRIDE was very good. That was what I
> expected. SWEENEY was going to be the real one
> for me, but it just left me cold…It sounds to me like you just changed as a viewer and Burton has remained more or less the same as a director. That’s not a bad thing though — not at all — I’m not nearly what I was ten years ago (i.e. I listen to a lot more artists than Danny these days). Tastes change, I’m saying. Burton is the same director though. Sweeney Todd is much more mature and edgier than his early works.
Yeah, but that “stamp” has remained that way for so long and it has lost it’s “edge”.
And I would certaily attirbute that same deffinition to Nolan’s Batman. We were lured into this one with our past Batman movies, challenged by showing us something new and different and the shock (allbeit a mild one) came in many forms, most arguably The Scarecrow. I Hope we can maintian this shock and awe with Ledger’s Joker.
Maybe that’s it. Burton’s movie has remained the same, while I indeed have continued to grow. I don’t think it’s too much to expect to be challenged by your favorite directors? SWEENY was good, but not great. Just Timmy doing what he’s always done. And I guess The Accedmy feels the same way…
Agreed. But this is what happens when people are asked to justify their wording. It all boils down to different tastes. I hope this is the end of discussing “edgy” vs. “shock”…
Yeah, but that “stamp” has remained that way for so long and it has lost it’s “edge”.
Well, story telling-wise, Burton has changed:
Source: filmscoremonthly.com
“Burton’s Willy Wonka is a social outcast, but Burton doesn’t encourage us to sympathize with him they way we sympathized with Edward or Pee-Wee. Wonka’s attempt to isolate himself from society and fill his factory with whimsical diversions only leaves him empty and miserable – he’s ultimately only saved by entering back into the family unit and community. This is hardly a theme that we saw in Burton’s previous work. And in Corpse Bride, the heroine is not an outcast at all, but part of a loving and loyal community. The entire film is about interpersonal relationships, people reaching outward, not inward – again, not themes that earlier Burton would have especially valued.”
…and the shock (allbeit a mild one) came in many forms, most arguably The Scarecrow.
There is little new with Batman Begins or with the Scarecrow, for that matter. In fact, Scarecrow’s fear toxin in that movie actually takes a step back from some of the more innovative storytelling that the fear gas allowed in Batman the Animated Series.
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