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my boyfriend now officially does not like danny elfman anymore as he once used to….why you ask? well, i will answer to sooth that curiousity….
He found out that Elfman’s music is orchestrated by none other than Steve Bartek–now–my boyfriend’s opinon on the matter is that composing and orchestrating are two seperate things–its one thing to make up the melody–but than to arrange it, it could sound completely different.
what are your opinons on this matter???? i am aware that a lot of other composers and critics out there depise danny elfman because of this.
(as a side note)(off-toic)–my boyfriend composed music for an upcoming Russian film “Nanking Scenery”–he is now the first 16 year old film composer in Russian history–and the main theme for the movie is a song he wrote for me = )
keep your eyes open–we do not yet know if it will go international.Well you can tell your boyfriend — if that is his real name — which, I have a feeling it isn’t — that an orchestrator is like a helping hand, an organizer of sorts. Steve keeps everything in place and supports all of Elfman’s needs. Steve Bartek is like a teddy. (I’m referring to lingerie, not a plush toy, although, the metaphor works both ways.)
To the highest degree, he’ll adjust the music under Elfman’s instruction, to the lowest degree, he’ll write the score for Romy and Michele: In the Beginning.
This is an often discussed topic. It’s widely accepted that Danny Elfman’s mock-ups are complete and that Steve Bartek makes corrections and adjustments. Bartek and Elfman have worked together for twenty years. They obviously have a shorthand and Bartek knows Elfman’s music better than anyone.
Most of the big time film composers working in Hollywood use orchestrators.
And guitarfreak, I had no idea you were a female.
Ryan
Yeah, Bartek’s just a helping hand. Have you heard the synth mockups Elfman does before the actual recordings? They’re almost exactly the same, and the mockups are all Elfman’s. Elfman COMPOSES and MAKES UP his own music. I’m sure he’d probably “orchestrate” his own music if he had the time, but I’m not sure if “orchestrate” is even the word that should be used to describe Bartek’s position. Basically, he helps with the recording part of the score.
Congrats to your boyfriend! Just make sure to ease his soul before he becomes anti-Elfman. And yes, Ryan, guitarfreak is definitely a female.
If Elfman were writing for a magazine, Bartek would be his proof reader. That’s basically it. That’s the relationship. True, a lot of orchestrators take popular melodies and create orchestral versions of them, this isn’t the way Elfman works with them.
Tell your boyfriend this:
Elfman comes up with the arrangement, the melody and mostly everything else. The orchestrators just make sure that the music is “playable”, i.e. in the correct range or other such things.If nobody believes me, listen to Elfman’s preliminary unorchestrated mock-ups for The Nightmare Before Christmas (one’s on the MFADT II CD) and then listen to the final score. There’s some differences but it’s more or less the same music.
I have seen Danny Write the complete score to a cue on his piano, which means he literally plays all of the instruments layered one on top of the other and Steve takes what Danny has done and just writes it out. All he is doing is saving time for Danny!!!
FFC
If nobody believes me, listen to Elfman’s preliminary unorchestrated mock-ups for The Nightmare Before Christmas (one’s on the MFADT II CD) and then listen to the final score.
Also take in the fact that the song mockups were done a year before the actual recording, and that he would want to do some more revisions.
I have seen Danny Write the complete score to a cue on his piano, which means he literally plays all of the instruments layered one on top of the other and Steve takes what Danny has done and just writes it out.
Wait. Elfman physically writes — on paper — his own music. I have seen it.
Hello!!
I’ve been studying some stuff about Film music. It’s true that Danny elfman is a self-taugh musician, and when Tim Burton asked him to do Peewee’s Adventure score, he inmediately asked Steve Bartek (Guitar player from Oingo Boingo band) to do some orchestrations due to his unknowledge on orchestration. In fact, Steve had just taken only some lessons in the UCLA for that time. Both learnt how to manage every project they worked in…But the fact that a composer use an orchestrator is totally usual in this bussiness due to the extremely short time they usually have to create all music. They use to have 3 months(in a lucky film schedule) to create about 2 hours of music for orchestra. This means creating music for more than 80 musicians playing at the same time. They are helped by the orchestrator, the music editor, other composers or even the director!! There’s no time for jamming and all stuff you create must be the good one!! So, all composers, and i’ve said ALL, use orchestrators and other people to help them. For example, a music genius like John Williams, a master in music (armony, orchestration and music syncronization with video), when he created “Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone” score, the orchestration was done by Conrad Pope, and John Williams knows how to do it, but maybe there wasn’t enough time…
After 20 years on a full time dedication to film scoring, I think Danny Elfman knows exactly what he want to listen in the final soundtrack, even if he’s helped by Steve Bartek or not…
C ya!!
It’s very true that Williams uses orchestrators – in fact I believe he always has. They are not credited in the CD credits but are always included in the end titles crawl for the films. Williams has worked with Conrad Pope for some years, but has also worked with Herbert Spencer on some of his legendary scores.
Ryan
With the time constraints and the pressure mounting of course orchestrators are needed. No person’s perfect and with the release date approaching sometimes more objective eyes are needed.
Speaking of which, the score for King Kong is f*cking amazing considering the time constraint on James Newton Howard. I don’t know why everyone was dissing it on here. It’s got a very distinct theme, and it gets the job done really well.
Steve Bartek as an orcestrator is like an editor for a book. But does, say, J.D. Sanlinger get crap because someone fixed some things in his books before they were published? No, and Danny shouldn’t either.
I think the reason Danny gets alot af crap is because of the whole “self-taught” thing. With MIDI mock-ups these days, alot of composers have a whole team of transcribers, orchestrators, and copyists to smooth things along. I think some people assume that Danny isn’t producing the “final product” because he never went to say, USC School of Music and couldn’t possibly orchestrate himself. It’s kinda rediculous. I heard something along the lines that Mel Brooks just hummed all the melodies for The Producers (not that I’m a fan in any way) to some hired help and received sole credit for book and lyrics… no one seemed to care. As other people have mentioned, his mock-ups are good enough to let you know that he knows what he’s doing. And chances are, these days, not too many composers actually get to orchestrate their own scores anyway (I think Howard Shore sometimes and Elliot Goldenthal do)…. anyway Elfman rules, and in this business, it’s all about the end product, that’s why Danny keeps getting hired.
You know, now days composers dont have the time luxuary to orchestrate their own. Danny gives plenty of credit to people that deserve it. From what i have gathered, Elfman’s sketches are very complete. Sure when you write as much music in as short a period of time as he does and try to match the quality that he gets in EVERY film score he does, sometimes you need a double check. Bartek is the perfect person. They have a long standing relationship and i bet Danny could right a 4 measure melody on the piano and Bartek could probably tell you what Elfman wanted.
Many people it seems get pissed that a rock star with no formal music education can just waltz in and create magnificant orchestral scores. I think it is awsome and something to be honored, not ripped.
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