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Well, I for one, despite the overall negativity about the film in general, would welcome a proper score release and would be the first in line to purchase it. I am sure many others feel the same.
I find it hilarious that we’re all trashing Young’s score while over at the filmscoremonthly boards most people are praising it.
That’s because some of them don’t like Elfman’s approach on the first two films, and they’re willing to laud anything Young wrote, no matter how minuscule, because one of “their guys” scored the picture. And they say this in the face of what Elfman wrote is clearly better — more textured, more clever in terms leitmotiv and in thematic development, and everything else you can think of. And if you ask them what’s so strong about Young’s material, they really can’t give you a straight answer. And that’s because they’ll praise a non-Danny Elfman super hero score for petty reasons.
Well i dont fully agree on that one.
Ottmans X-men 2 wasnt any good. But i think Zimmer/Howard made a great score for Batman Begins. It was just the right tone for that movie. Its crazy how people bash it beacause it didnt sound like Elfman or Goldenthal’s approach.
It had a serious feel to it just like the movie, and i think the themes that where written was more interesting than Goldenthal’s over the top noise fanfares and boogie-chaos.
So Young, Ottman and Goldenthal – thumbs down
And Elfman, Powell, Zimmer/Howard thumbs up
….and i didnt forget John Williams but he basicly started the whole thing so why bring him up along these guys
I don’t understand why people don’t like Ottman’s X2 score. It has a terrific main theme and great secondary themes that really fit the movie tonally and also make for a good solo listen. Actually, the X2 score is pretty high up there among my favorites. But at least I’m in agreement on Goldenthal’s Batman scores, and most certainly also on Young’s take on “Spider-Man 3.” I’m a bit indifferent on “Batman Begins”… I didn’t like that movie but I didn’t hate the score, just it didn’t thrill me like Danny’s Batman did.
Its crazy how people bash it beacause it didnt sound like Elfman or Goldenthal’s approach.
I don’t dislike it because it wasn’t an Elfman approach, I dislike it because I feel it’s a largely incompetent score that actually seems to contradict the films imagery with its music, rather than accentuating it. The look and feel of the Batman Begins film has the same great film noir and art deco tone of Batman: The Animated Series, and the score that was written for Batman Begins does not invoke the same sprit or even match the footage with the music they play over it, with its droning synth rhythms, synthetic brass/percussion and cold motives.
Listen to how well this plays. And it’s just Decent into Mystery played over images from the movie. And it completely matches the grander of the film.
(Big problem to write this in english, but ill give it a try
My opinion is that Dany Elfmans music was perfect for Burtons Batman films. No question. But those where big “Phantom of the opera” kind of films with strange monsters all lurking in shaddows, with towering buildings with giant statues on every rooftop etc…
It was an fantasy adventure at times with large battle of penguins or gangster wars with clowns running wild.
Just a big comic book joy ride.But Batman Begins is nothing like that at all in my opinion. There is always this realistic feel about everything. No monsters, No giant ballons with gas, No penguins marching with rockets etc
When i see that clip with Batman Begins scored with Elfmans music it feels so terribly wrong. The music is screaming big opera adventure and the pictures are saying seriuos drama.
If one would put Elfmans music on the whole Batman Begins film i think the score would feel very overdramatic and out of place. Its simply to over the top with that kind of music for this film. Batman 1989 – One of the best scores i have ever heard. But just dont put it together with Batman Begins
Of course Zimmer/Howards score isnt even close to the quality of Elfmans Batman score, but its a great match for the film i represents. If its a booring score? No i think its a score that has a purpose to underline the ambience of the whole film rather then making you rise up of joy like the time you heard the “Batman main titles” for the first time. So if im looking for a entertaining score for the cd-player in my car, this one really isnt up for the task.
But TenderLumpling. We can agree on one thing. Elfman beats Zimmer 9 out of 10 times when it comes to filmmusic. But just mix their films together.
Who would like the superior Ed Scissorshands music as the soundtrack for “Amercian Beauty”? Thats almost the same thing to me as putting Elfmans score on Batman Begins
To make this spiderman 3 thread even more out of order…
Elfman and Zimmer have done other sequel scores that one could fight over wich one did it best?
Mission Impossible vs Mssion Impossible II
Hannibal vs Red DragonMy take on it: Elfman – Zimmer 2-0
There is always this realistic feel about everything.
Be that as it may, the music that was written for Batman Begins doesn’t really play toward the grandiose and old-timey visuals, or toward Batman himself, for that matter. Batman is the Phantom of the Opera; he is the boogeyman — the night. That’s the whole point of him and his music. Nothing in the Batman Begins suggests such droning ambience all the time. Realism doesn’t equal modernism. There is nothing “real” about synthetic (i.e., not genuine) brass, or percussion. Give me a Korngold and Steiner throwback score any day.
I really hated Batman Begins, because it felt wrong. I couldn’t see that dark vibe that was, to me, very necessary for a Batman movie…
But when I see the images with Elfman’s Descent Into Mistery, I realize that the movie could have been dark, and that the images are really beautiful, but the score wasted everything…! That’s a perfect example that proves that a score can actually kill a movie.
And about Chris Young’s Spiderman music, I totally agree : I would be more than happy to see a score release because I loved some parts of the score. Nothing actually worked on the movie because of that cut and paste mess, but I’m sure it would be a very interesting experience to listen to it on cd.
But that doesn’t mean that the music in the movie didn’t suck… Everytime I listen to these main titles, it creeps me out!!! Even my best friend who doesn’t know ANYTHING about music asked me right away : “what happened there??? the rythm changed without any progression, and even the sound quality isn’t the same…”Have to agree with JMY. Elfman’s Batman music would not have worked with the new film, which focused more on detective work and less on superheroics. That clip does more to hurt the cause. Furthermore, there is more to film music than scoring what’s on screen. Just because Gotham is grandiose doesn’t mean the music should be. Zimmer and Howard considered the psychological side of the story, which, if you notice, the movie dwells on a lot. If anything, Batman Begins felt like a Law & Order episode with the minor exception that one of the officers had a tendency towards wearing capes. If Elfman had been involved, I’d be willing to bet that his work would have been a complete stranger to his work on the Burton films.
…which focused more on detective work and less on superheroics.
I don’t find that to be true at all. How much detective work is there in Batman Begins? I recall Batman fighting more than him testing dirt samples, and whatnot.
Zimmer and Howard considered the psychological side of the story, which, if you notice, the movie dwells on a lot.
So how do they play toward the psychology of Batman?
I think Elfman is the one who dwells into the psychological side of Batman, by using sort of a “mission theme/parent theme,” that plays during the scene where Bruce drops roses on his parents murder sight, and then reprises when he goes after the Joker in the cathedral. It’s an internal theme that connects with his parents and his mission, and reminds us what drives him to do what he does, almost as if he’s bound to their will from beyond the grave.
Walker does the same kind of idea in Mask of the Phantasm. It works beautifully.
This thing is starting to sound like all other “Elfman is The Batman” discussions.
Elman made a killer Batman theme, but why cant anybody make a new and different take on it? I think you have made up your mind about this thing and it wont matter who makes it or how the new theme would sound, you´ll still think Elfman should do it
?…or what did i miss?
Actually I liked the new Batman theme by Zimmer. I think all the hoopla would be about all the synths those two used on that score. Horrible choice. If only they would have used actual orchestra for the WHOLE score it would have made a huge difference in my opinion. Coincidentally, does anyone know the name of the track on the CD that theme shows up on? I think it featured most prominantly during that batmobile chase. If anyone knows the name of that track it would be greatly appreciated.
The track name is “Molossus.” I enjoy Zimmer as a composer, and he’s a very smart man (side note: listen to the SoundtrackNet interview with him on his “Pirates 3” score — he’s very well spoken and intelligent, and he goes on to discuss his respect for and conversations with Danny Elfman concerning “The Simpsons”). However, I still feel his “Batman Begins” score was inappropriate, and the track titles are a bit pretentious — they’re all scientific names of bat species, and several consecutive tracks in there spell “BATMAN.”
(to get back on track and off the Zimmer-trail…..)
Well its just not fair to critizes someones work if youre not planing to make a better job yourself
My take own on the Sandman theme.
Youll find it here:
http://www.myspace.com/jmyscore
or here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CTKotJHU0E8
But i just noticed how f
up the sound gets on You Tube files…why cant anybody make a new and different take on it? I think you have made up your mind about this thing and it wont matter who makes it or how the new theme would sound, you´ll still think Elfman should do it
? I don’t care if they choose to pursue a different take on the music, just long at it’s a score that’s competent — one that services the visuals.
And I’m certainly not in the “Elfman only” crowd, either:
Nelson Riddle’s music in the Adam West show, or Shirley Walker’s music in Batman Beyond, for example, are two very different takes on Batman music, and they both capture the tone, visuals, and spirt perfectly.
I really don’t feel like going through 193 posts to see if this question has been answered, but humor me.
Is the “Spider-Man 3” score going to be released?
Great read whether you liked the film and score or not:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32911
Addresses the cutting of some of his original cues (imagine that!), the score CD, etc.
I can’t believe he’s actually getting praise for this score! I tried to like parts of it, I really did, and I managed to enjoy the “Birth of Sandman” cue, but the rest of it SUCKS! And the “love theme” he came up with, from the “Web” and “Happy Ending” cues that weren’t used in the movie… it’s awful! Thank goodness for Sony stepping in and forcing Danny’s love theme back in there. Then there’s his claim that he adapted Danny’s themes… he didn’t! Except for part of the Green Goblin theme, I really don’t think he actually adapted any of the original material, that all renditions of the Spider-Man theme are only there thanks to Sony, Deborah Lurie, and John Debney. I know he wanted to do his own thing, but his own thing isn’t too great! And he’s considered a “veteran composer”… I lose more and more respect for him with every new interview I read. What a summer that a “Pirates of the Caribbean” score completely obliterates a “Spider-Man” score…
I just finished watching “Ghost Rider” for the first time, and I couldn’t help but notice that some of its score seemed to have spilled into the “Spider-Man 3” score, namely the Black Suit and Venom themes. See, “Ghost Rider” is the kind of campy movie that Young’s stylings are suited for, not something with the scale and importance of “Spider-Man.” In conclusion, I’m still mad about “Spider-Man 3.”
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