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I don’t think that’s a fair statement though. Danny even acknowledged in an interview that Hans Zimmer was right to credit everyone in the music creation process.
Uhm, no. That’s a very weak comparison. Batman is dark in its tone, and so is DARKman. Spider-man was MUCH lighter compared to the both of them (and again, written by Elfman during a different stage in his career!).
I don’t think you are understanding my point. You keep reverting back to subjective favorites (in which no one will EVER win). You like Batman. You hate Spider-man. Ok. That’s not my point. Batman and Spider-man have NOTHING in common except the fact that they are superhero films. Their music was written 13 years apart. Same genre automatically entails a score of the same caliber? What about other factors? Studio, director, story, characterization, history of the franchise, current events and influences in Elfman’s life?
I’ll have you know that Spider-man was actually the score that made me aware of film music and Danny Elfman altogether. Sure I went back and listened to all his old scores and loved them, but I didn’t think Spider-man and Batman were in the same tier simply because they were superheros. Each was a masterpiece in its own right written years and years apart.
Then you make a very valid point, and I agree with you. Elfman has confined himself to very similar projects (even though he is one of the most versatile composers out there……if that makes sense). But I think he realizes this, which is why he has branched out into other mediums of composing (i.e., concert work, ballet, musical).
But I disagree with you about Batman to Spider-man. Both are very different heroes, different tone, and Elfman developed music for them in two different eras. Spider-man 2 is one of Elfman’s finest achievements as a composer—right up there with Batman.
I agree about Corpse Bride versus Nightmare before Christmas
And again, I disagree about Charlotte’s Web versus Black Beauty.
…but now we are simply arguing favorites—-which in all reality no one can really win since it is very subjective.
But I think it is rather harsh to say that his lack of melodies make him weaker. Like I said before, music is very complex and melody is but one element of it. If you want a SIMPLE answer to prime in terms of melody, then yes
he is passed his prime. Passed his prime as an overall composer? Not at allWait, I need to clarify a few things. By Opera I OBVIOUSLY meant Broadway show, haha.
Next, Decent Into Mystery, what my post meant to emphasize is the different ‘stages’ in an artists’ life. Obviously a composer will evolve from score to score. I agree with you that Edward Scissorhands is no Beetlejuice and so on—-but they all fall under his first stage as a composer (I would say 85-95, although you guys don’t seem to like Elfman’s output in 95 for whatever reason). This era is characterized by his whimsical/melodic characteristics, and obviously his most popular. You can argue that this is his best era, and that’s fine, but you cannot argue that he is ‘passed his prime’ because he no longer writes catchy tunes. Elfman once said of Goldsmith (and one of Goldsmith’s contemporaries, I cannot remember) that when Goldsmith didn’t write melodies, it is not because he couldn’t, but because he chose not to do so. I constantly hear everyone give Elfman beef saying that he cannot write a good solid melody anymore, when in all reality he has simply moved on from this approach. There are an infinite amount of ways to paint a picture, and melody is only one of them. Is it THAT important to people? Do you characterize ‘prime’ with the ability to write one big master melody. Let us remember that Danny Elfman is very much a postmodernist composer. John Williams is a modernist composer (and an amazing one at that).
Like I said, his second era as a composer would be 96-04. He is driven with strong percussive writing and messy counterpoints.
His third and present stage started in 05. His concert work seemed to make him more conscious as a ‘composer’ and not just a ‘film composer’. Plus I hear influences of the Art Music world (ex. Philip Glass) more often in his writing.
His second and third stages as a composer emphasize his theory of “building blocks” to build a score. Rather than having elaborate melodies he has elaborate motifs that influence one another. If anything, I would say this is rather more ingenious when listening to the way he brings these thematic ideas together.
But in the end I will say that I very much doubt Elfman will ever return to the way he approached composing from 85-95. This may be a sad truth for many fans
but tough luck, it happens with artists (music, art, writing, filmmaking) all the time. I love Stravinsky’s earlier output (particularly his ballet’s), but hey he moved on and eventually adopted serialism and used all sorts of different approaches. Am I going to say his career as a composer peaked with his ballet’s because of stronger thematic elements? Probably not. His entire lifetime is hailed as an achievement. I believe Elfman will be the same.Elfman made a name for himself with his early scores in the late 80’s and early 90’s. In all reality, I would count this as the first stage in his composing career. The Mystic Knights and Oingo Boingo did not require elaborate compositions or complex orchestrations, and much less hours upon hours of composing by the piano (or whatever other means of composing he uses).
Elfman himself has said that The Mystic Knights was his musical training, and that Oingo Boingo was a fun gig to write a few songs, produce an Album, and then go on tour. His real development as a composer began with Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure.
Artists are always measured on how they manage to break into the scene, and if they manage to make a career they are then judged by ‘eras’ or ‘stages’. In a recent thread about The Beatles: you have their Pop Roots, their Studio Development Years, their Transcendental Meditation/Drug Years, and their Final Years as a group before each member branched out into their own. It’s wrong to say Elfman reached his peak in the early days simply because of memorable melodies. Fans who don’t enjoy Elfman nowadays are probably the same as why Ryan doesn’t enjoy the Beatles in their later years. You can’t expect an artist’s output to be the same for decades and decades—-that would be the exact opposite of creativity. His period after Mission Impossible has been motivated by more contrapuntal and leitmotif driven writing.
I would say his 3rd period as a composer kicked off with Serenada Schizophrana, in which he incorporates more elements from the Art Music world and from his previous two eras. Milk, in my humble opinion, is one of his most (if not THE most) mature (and underrated!!) works in his career thus far.
I do not think he’s reached his fullest potential yet. I think we have a lot to look forward to with his new “stage” as a composer. I’m certain he’ll further exploit it with his Opera. How exciting.
you know what’s funny is my Elfman hook was also like D-Bo’s and Spider-Fan’s……….and I was also 15. So that’s 3 of us in the same age range with the same film score that changed our lives
The Kingdom might possibly be another turning point in Elfman’s career—-much like Mission Impossible was over ten years ago. His melodies became more “buried” in complex harmonies. Danny is evolving!
Good composers are the ones that are versatile. We all know and love the great thematic and melodic material he writes, but after a while even that can get old. Its good to listen to Elfman scores where he thinks outside the box and out of his comfort zone.
The way its done in the first two titles is that Elfman buries that note by emphasizing the higher one. If you really really pay close attention you can actually hear it. Another reason I know so is because I have a copy of the score, and both notes are written in there (the lower one as a cue)
Well actually that one “changed” note was part of Elfman’s original score, but the way that Young orchestrated this version of the Main Titles makes it stand out more……way more…….but it wasn’t all Young’s doing
well the score has now been released………and from the first listen nothing “scary” comes to mind, just very dramatic………….unless its an unreleased cue. Its probably those “overused” synthesizers that are scary right?
hmmmmmmm…..well i’ll look for “Swing Closeup” somewhere in this site.
No posts about bootlegs. This entire thread will be going in the shitter pretty soon…
