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He, he….that petition is very cute, in a “fanboy”-kind of way, but it’s obviously just a fan dream that will never see the light of the day, even if you – as elfboy says – got a million signatures.
But nice to see such dedication, Rebel! Seriously.
Uhm….thanks for the rundown of the films there, DTM, but I’m well aware of what they are. We were talking specifically about a SOUND here, something more subdued and less reliant on bombast, and all of those contain it. That sound goes across genres. That said, the definition of drama extends well beyond those you mention. Most of the ones I mentioned in my post above qualify as dramas too, even though they have other elements as well (FAMILY MAN, for example, isn’t any less of a drama just because it contains Christmas elements!). So do the ones YOU mention.
> They’re not in the same league as his genre films
> like Edward Scissorhands, Nightmare Before
> Christmas, and Batman.Maybe not, but so what? EDWARD, NIGHTMARE and BATMAN are his three major works. Nothing has yet come close to those. That’s beside the point, anyway. The point is that Elfman is able to compose in many different genres with equal vigour. I think it’s silly to claim that he’s “better” in some than others. If you have your preferences, that’s fine, but that’s also where it ends.
Wow, bookbinder, why don’t you tell us what you REALLY feel?
Personally, I’m a huge fan of Zimmer, but not quite sure why he was brought up here.
I love JNH too and am sure he will do a great job on this. In fact, I’d rather see him do it than Elfman. I want Elfman to do more calm, ambient stuff – and it seems to me that this particular project didn’t necessarily call for that.
Descent Into Mystery Wrote:
> his latest “action” scores
>
> I wasn’t talking about action scores. I was
> talking about his genre scores, which aside from
> action, include comedy, fantasy, sci-fi, horror,
> etc. He’s better at that then indie drama scores.
> At the end of the day, Edward Scissorhands will be
> more remembered and celebrated than Dolores
> Claiborne.I think you’re generalizing awfully much here. What’s “indie drama scores” anyway? And who’s to say what he is “better” (sic) at than other things? I don’t think that’s the right term to use.
I think Elfman is adept at almost every type of film and every type of musical expression while still maintaining his identity. He’s proven that over the years.
If you don’t like A SIMPLE PLAN, SOP, MILK, KINGDOM, TAKING WOODSTOCK, BIG FISH, FAMILY MAN, ANYWHERE BUT HERE, GOOD WILL HUNTING, SOMMERSBY and so on, that’s your right. However, over the years I’ve found myself returning MORE to those than the superhero scores and more fantasy-oriented stuff.
Actually, I’m impressed that they even KNEW the names ‘John Williams’ and ‘Hans Zimmer’. Most regular folks don’t.
Descent Into Mystery Wrote:
> I know people get mad when I say this, but Elfman
> is better at bombast than ambient scores. His best
> quiet/small scores are for quirker and more
> romantized movies like Edward Scissorhands and
> Black Beauty. Drama just isn’t his area. Action,
> Comedy, Fantasy, Horror, etc is when Elfman is at
> his best. He’s a genre composer not an indie drama
> guy.I don’t get “mad” (you’re free to your opinion!), but I couldn’t disagree more with you. In fact, I would claim the exact opposite. Over the years, I’ve grown more and more weary of his more bombastic scores – from past and present. There’s FAR more quality listening in the subdued and/or ambient stuff.
Yeah, what Natrebo just said. More calm, soothing, ambient stuff a la SOP, MILK, KINGDOM, TAKING WOODSTOCK….less of the bombast a la HELLBOY, WANTED, 9 and so on. I’m not too bothered by Elfman exiting this. I’m FAR more looking forward to his Haggis & Berg work.
mongoose_mania Wrote:
> I love Herrmann, his score for “Psycho” is my
> favorite thing he’s ever done, with “Vertigo”
> being close behind it. Of course, his scores for
> “The Twilight Zone” were also superb.
> There’s always one bit of music that Elfman has
> written that reminds me of Herrmann, and it’s
> “Stolen Bike” from “Pee-wee’s Big Adventure.” The
> strings in that piece just make me think of
> “Psycho” every time and I really love it.That’s probably because it was a very deliberate reference to that score!
Yeah, I know that VERTIGO is a classic and I’ve seen the film a couple of times (it’s pretty good). Still, I just can’t connect to it as a soundtrack experience. I just find the constant “breathing” chord-stop effects grating to my ears. Herrmann did this quite a lot, none more so than VERTIGO, and it’s not my favourite aspect of his sound.
I DO like TAXI DRIVER, though, one of the best scores to portray a sullen, neon-lit urban landscape by night or sunset. It’s that and Goldenthal’s HEAT that really capture that particular thing extremely well.
Thanks a lot for those videos, 9FingeredElf. If you don’t mind, I shared your links at FSM too.
It’s fun to see him talk freely in such a forum, and Bond does a fine job as the interviewer (although his questions are very famililar to Elfman fans, they may not be to the ComiCon crowd). HOWEVER, I’m always embarassed by rabid fan behaviour, as evidenced here through clapping, showers of adulation or silly questions. That guy ending his question by humming the Simpsons theme out loud literally made me cringe in my seat. Perhaps more even than Elfman himself.
I hated him in the beginning of my film music fandom (and didn’t really see the Herrmann connection in Elfman that everyone talked about). Too much repetitive clusters and intense gratuity. Well, as the years have gone by, I’ve come to both see and hear the connection and even like many Herrmann works. Not too keen on VERTIGO (and scores in similar territory), but love stuff like GHOST AND MRS. MUIR, PSYCHO, WILLIAMSBURG, THE KENTUCKIAN, CITIZEN KANE and THE TROUBLE WITH HARRY. The sci fi/fantasy stuff is a little hit and miss. I generally prefer more subdued music.
Very interesting. It’s not often that I’ve seen composers sit on such a jury. It’s usually directors or actors.
Descent Into Mystery Wrote:
> Yeah, but you said it was a homage when it clearly
> isn’t. Jerry Goldsmith was just pleasing the
> director.Say what? An hommage can obviously stem from the director’s wishes too. In fact, that’s probably how most film music hommages come about. In this case, I don’t know what happened. Maybe the director asked Goldsmith to reference Elfman’s style specifically. Maybe Goldsmith himself saw the film molded in the same style and automatically reached for Elfman’s sound – especially considering it was everywhere in those days. Whatever the case, the score ended up the way it did.
Descent Into Mystery Wrote:
> Well, not really. To begin with, Danny Elfman has
> imitated Bernard Herrmann a lot. So, a lot of
> times what sounds like an Elfman homage is really
> just a Hermann homage. Like, for example, one
> might listen to John Williams’ Minority Report
> score and think it’s Elfman-inspired but it’s
> really just Herrmann.That would be true if you only listened to the sound itself. However, since this is film music it’s always a matter of CONTEXT and HOW the music is being used. For example, when all the EDWARD SCISSORHANDS-like “oohs” and “aahs” appear in magical or Christmassy settings in commercials and films, it’s usually a reference to the Elfman score. Even though the SOUND itself obviously pre-dates Elfman (Saint-Saens, for example). In this case, it’s a matter of a film that is clearly molded on the same “dark superhero” style that made BATMAN so popular. So it is only natural it looked to that film and what made it so popular. The score was one of the factors. Do you really think THE SHADOW would have been made – and made in THAT style – had it not been for the success of BATMAN in 89?
> So, whatever Elfman-esque sounds you hear
> in the Shadow score is just Jerry Goldsmith trying
> to please his bosses.Sure, that may be true, but that doesn’t make it sound like Elfman any less.
*sigh*
It’s interesting, isn’t it? We’re all humans equipped with working ears in this forum (one would assume), yet we obviously hear something so RADICALLY differently?! To me – and many like me – THE SHADOW has always been – and still is – one of the most obvious Elfman hommages in the history of film music.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one (or rather accept that we hear things differently).
TenderLumpling Wrote:
> Aside from the main title, which sounds like
> Waxman’s Prince Valiant, everything else in The
> Shadow sounds like a Jerry Goldsmith score.
>
> Take this, for example:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT-Thhj_jmM
>
> Aside from the “Hammer horror” brass, Jerry’s
> fingerprints are all over this.Of course it is. I never said it did NOT sound like Goldsmith. It has his trademarks here and there all the way through. However, it’s still INFLUENCED by Elfman, even that track. It’s especially evident in the wide-open interval leaps of the main theme, the very dramatic, gothic style that he defined with BATMAN. Are you seriously suggesting that you canNOT hear that? In the track you posted, let’s say – just to have a specific point – between 1:50-2:25??
Is that Jeff Bond on Elfman’s right?
As for the music box thingie, well it obviously sounds interesting. However, I fear it’s just a gathering of his Burton scores, which I already own (I could care less if they’re expanded). Hopefully, though, there will be some “gems” in there that we haven’t heard before. Let’s wait and see.
It’s all over the score (and if you can’t hear what I find blatantly obvious, no matter what I say will make any difference to you). But hey….put on the “main title”. It’s there from the get-go.
TenderLumpling Wrote:
> the whole thing is DRENCHED in Elfman “ambiance”
>
> Hmm, could you be a little more specific?I was, a couple of posts up.
The “wagnerian” interval leaps, the foreboding brass, the large, minor-mode melodies. BATMAN was so successful that it is only natural that “dark superhero” films would be made in the years following it, and that they all would refer more or less to the same recipe, including the score.
Just as Stu Phillips’ BATTLESTAR GALACTICA did STAR WARS or “wailing woman” post-GLADIATOR or Powell’s “Bourne riff” in contemporary action films following the success of the Matt Damon vehicle.
rkeaveney Wrote:
> I still don’t get it. Goldsmith uses a different
> orchestral palette, enhanced with exotic
> percussion, electronic effects, the sliding brass
> (whale-like) motif, that all set it apart from
> Elfman’s BATMAN.Yeah, but beyond those specific tools and trademarks, the whole thing is DRENCHED in Elfman “ambiance”, approach and style. It’s literally Goldsmith channelled through Elfman. Quite fascinating, because the late maestro didn’t often quote other composers’ STYLE so specifically.
