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No, it’s source music from the Troll Market scene.
The end credits start with a song, and then transition into an edited suite of cues from elsewhere in the film.
The themes are way more apparent when you hear the music in the movie.
The “Golden Army” theme, which is what you hear in Tracks 02 and 19, is only heard when the Golden Army is on screen, unfortunately. I love that motif too, and it’s a shame that it’s used to sparingly.
jumby007 Wrote:
> Yeah that was me. I was just repeating what I’d
> heard through people who work everyday at
> Universal. I’m not one to try and spread silly,
> unconfirmed rumors. I wonder if they meant they
> replaced a lot of what he wrote first, and then he
> had to do a lot of 12th hour rewrites?
>
> I can definitely confirm they were looking for
> extra orchestrators to make the score sound
> “bigger.”Yeah, the big statement of the HB motif (which isn’t on the album) is played in the film 3 or 4 times… it sounds a little like that might have been the result of some minor score tampering in the mix, but for the most part it’s all there, and seems to be where it was intended to be.
You really do need to be careful with spreading those rumors, though… sometimes comments that are made/overheard are completely misleading and may not relate to the situation at hand. A music editor, for example, may be bitching about having to reconform music for a variety of reasons – minor pictures changes, last minute studio requests, etc, or various other issues pertaining to the mix. That doesn’t mean that the score is in trouble or that the composer screwed… it’s just a semi-common part of the process, and unless you’re neck deep in that particular situation, it’s hard to know what those rumblings mean and how blown out of proportion the chatter might be.
Word is that Elfman didn’t start working on the movie full time until March, and perhaps it just came down it to them needing more personnel toward the end? The score is enormous, and it was a relatively modestly budgeted picture, as summer action flicks go. Perhaps they didn’t get approval for a bigger orchestra until late in the process? That’s total speculation on my part, but such a hypothetical situation could easily be read negatively and positively at the same time. Only those right up against it seem to know for sure, and judging from the interviews that Elfman and Del Torro have done, both walked away really happy.
No, no temp music. I’ve heard that there were a few “additional cues” written by other people (under Elfman’s supervision) due to the fact that there was a ton of music to write in a short amount of time, but nothing stuck out.
The one part that I suspect might not have been Elfman, though, is the cue that plays under the flight with the plant monster (aka “The Elemental”), which is heard, in the film, right before the gorgeous cue “The Last Elemental.” It’s a very sound effects heavy sequence, and those seem to be the ones that DE farms out to other composers on the few occasions he’s had to do it, due to the fact that the music can usually barely be heard in the mix anyway!
boingomusic Wrote:
> Well, i guess this interview AND the Haunted Hotel
> story clearly puts an end to the rumour about Del
> Toro not being satisfied with the Hellboy
> score….! Apparently, he’s more than happy with
> it, and he and Danny get along good enough to
> visit haunted hotels and get drunk together
>
> Who had posted that story / rumour anyway?!!!!??I saw the movie on Tuesday (which is way better than the first!) and replied to it in another thread. Here’s what I wrote:
In the film, track 03 “Training” and track 05 “Hallway Cruise” are absent (although it’s clear which scenes they were written for), but most of what’s on the CD is in the film in fine form. There are also, of course, a number of nifty cues that did not make the album. There’s a neat jazzy cue that plays twice when HB and the gang are getting ready to go out and take care of business. There are also some big ass statements of the ‘Hellboy motif” that make the theme in the film a little more identifiable.
Overall, I like the score much more after seeing the picture than I did beforehand. The Last Elemental cue is gorgeous up against the picture, and some of the film’s other “soft” cues really work wonderfully too. The “Golden Army” scherzo (which appears in the main title, and then again in track 19, “In The Army Chamber” is really bad-ass in the film. It’s not heard much more than it is on the album, though!
Yes indeed. In the film, track 03 “Training” and track 05 “Hallway Cruise” are absent (although it’s clear which scenes they were written for), but most of what’s on the CD is in the film in fine form. There are also, of course, a number of nifty cues that did not make the album. There’s a neat jazzy cue that plays twice when HB and the gang are getting ready to go out and take care of business. There are also some big ass statements of the ‘Hellboy motif” that make the film a little more identifiable.
Overall, I like the score much more after seeing the picture than I did beforehand. The Last Elemental cue is gorgeous up against the picture, and some of the film’s other “soft” cues really work wonderfully too. The “Golden Army” scherzo (which appears in the main title, and then again in track 19, “In The Army Chamber” is really bad-ass in the film.
Yeah, I somewhat don’t believe this story entirely either.
One of my friends here in LA did some uncredited orchestration on a couple HELL BOY 2 cues five weeks ago or so. While they were on a tight schedule (as orchestrators usually are), he described the cues as being “huge” and seemed to get the feeling that work on the picture was going well. The CD will be what Elfman did, and I guess we’ll have to see what made it into the film. Frankly, I’m more interested in the CD anyway.
Oh, and speaking of Elfman mixes lately… I think the last couple have been great. SOP, the album, sounds phenomenal, as does WANTED. Really crisp, with a great blend or orchestra and electronic. What doesn’t sound good about the music to you?
My info comes from someone who attended one of the SOP sessions. I don’t know any details other than that some thematic material from Serenada Schizophrana appears… most prominently “Bells and Whistles.”
I don’t know how different the music will be, but Elfman completely rethought and reconceived Serenada when he and Debra Lurie did DEEP SEA 3D, so I’m guessing it will be interesting and fresh, regardless of the fact that it contains some familiar thematic material.
Still, Elfman detractors who claim that he always repeats himself will probably have more cannon fodder when this music hits the scene.
Elfman adapted sections of Serenada Schizophrana again for this picture. A good deal of the recording he did was done before the picture was assembled!
I have it and feel it represents the music well. It’s important to note that they’re not the original tracks (which have never been released in any form, except for as an isolated track on the DVD). I don’t listen to this one a lot anymore, but the music is good, and it’s the only way to get it.
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> Well, although Williams was a successful composer at that time (1971), much of what would be known as his signature music was yet to be written when FIDDLER happened. I doubt Williams’ legitimacy as a composer was ever questioned like Elfman’s has been, and I don’t think his music has ever divided film music devotees the way more idiosyncratic guys like Elfman and Zimmer do.
Yeah, if Elfman did take the job, it would really piss off fans of SWEENEY TODD if he took many liberties. Therefore Elfman working on the picture would be a lose/lose… fans of the musical would bristle, and fans of Elfman wouldn’t be hearing Elfman’s take on anything… just his producing and arranging skills. The Elfman / Burton relationship isn’t in any trouble, and it looks like all parties involved are approaching it the right way.
I really like the finale piece as well, the electronic bits are neat, but a little too dissonant for my tastes. I don’t think it will become my favorite score by him, but I don’t think it’s bad either.
Well, this kind of writing probably requires a good deal of skill, but simply doesn’t make for a terribly good listening experience outside of the movie.
It’s a hard thing to remember that not all filmmusic is good on its own, which of course doesn’t mean that the composer f#@%ed up or was asleep at the switch, but it sympomatic of the movie needing that kind of music.
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but my friend who has says that Young reprised most of Elfman’s main title cue, but wrote his own thing for the “middle” part (where the Doc Ock theme is played in the SM2 main titles).
I haven’t heard about the end titles at all.
Shirley Walker was NOT working with Elfman / Bartek at the time of PEE WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE. If you don’t believe me, look at the end credits of the movie: Lennie Niehaus is credited.
John Coleman conducted the ALBUM of PEE WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE / BACK TO SCHOOL which was done a couple years later. It was a rerecording. Walker didn’t have anything to do with that either.
Shirley Walker did not work on either of the Pee Wee scores. She didn’t orchestrate or conduct. Her assocation with Elfman didn’t begin until BATMAN.
Lennie Niehaus (known for his work on various Clint Eastwood movies) conducted PEE WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE and according to Bartek did a clean-up on the orchestrations.
William Ross conducted BIG TOP PEE WEE, which was orchestrated by Bartek, Steven Scott Smalley and a few others, I think.
I think the answer to your inquiry is that Elfman simply does things differently now then he did back then. I’m not sure orchestration has much to do with it, frankly. Elfman, like most composers, is still pretty much on top of every sound that comes out of the orchestra. And in case you haven’t noticed, Bartek has been heavily involved in pretty much every film Elfman has ever done, except for two or three. SOMMERSBY, which most fans seems to hold in very high esteem, was primiarily orchestrated by Thomas Pasateri (Thomas Newman’s regular guy). Bartek was busy with other projects while that was going on, and could only contribute a little. It still sounds like Elfman of that era and I think it’s pretty damn good.
I’m convinced it IS a new recording.
And for the record again, Bartek did not write anything for the film. The adaptations were done by John Debney AND Debra Lurie. There were recording days where all three would record their own cues for the exact same scene!
I posted something similar to this on the FSM board a few days back, but wanted to repost here (with a lttle new info) in case some of the readers here don’t read that board. Here’s all that I’ve been told from talking with various people who know what the hell is going on…
-Raimi really likes Young’s music and most — if not all — of it will stay in the picture.
-Young had made use of several components from the previous two scores, including the main Spider-Man theme and the Green Goblin theme.
-Sony seemed to have some concern over Young’s love theme, however, and last week paid for two days of sessions where variations of Elfman’s love theme from the first two pictures were recorded. [For the record, Sony had a lot of concern over the love theme back on the first Spider-Man that resulted in Elfman doing a bunch of last minute fixes before the release as well — it sounds like the love theme generates a lot of discussion among the suits there.]
-The adaptations were not done by Debra Lurie… not by Elfman himself or by Steve Bartek. Bartek did, however, orchestrate the adapted cues. Lurie adapted some bits of Serenada Schizophrana for DEEP SEA 3D that Elfman didn’t have time to do himself, and assisted him in revising several cues for the second CHARLOTTE WEB sessions that happened last fall.
-It’s unclear at the moment if the adapted cues will actually be used in the final mix.
-Young finished recording his score this week, and the musicans involved seem to think the music is pretty good!
Well, I’m a assistant editor for film in LA, so some of my info comes from being connected to that business. I hear other stuff from a combination of people I know who are involved with film music in some way (session players, music editors etc). Of course, I learn an awful lot from info that Ryan posts here too: He usually hears a lot more than I do on these matters!
In this case, I happen to have heard a lot of chatter over the last several days at parties and whatnot, so I’m in a rare position to pass info along. It’s juicy gossip in the film music world, so pretty much anyone who has anything to do with that sphere is talking about it how crazy the situation has become.
I really don’t know more than that the Elfman adaptations being recorded today, and it’s somewhat against Raimi’s wishes. When they first started recording, the word was that the studio really liked Young’s score, but were a little dissappointed that it did not sound more like Elfman. I heard about the Bartek material last week, and that they’d be recording for one day (today).
Young is keeping it cool and professional, but it’s really got to be hard to be in his position right now.
