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Might Elfman himself be in possession of some of those elements? Afterall, they presumably used them (or at least copies of them) when mixing the Family Dog tracks for MFADT vol 2 10 years back…
Eflman said in an interview years ago that Jerry Goldsmith had been very sweet to him early in his career. I’m not sure if he was referring to something Goldsmith said about him or what, but in any case, there was some affection, at least early on.
As Ryan said, though, Goldsmith could be quite a cranky son of a bitch… In the end, his opinion of Elfman really doesn’t matter much. He _really_ didn’t think too much of Bernard Herrmann (as we know, another of Elfman’s big influences). For that matter, I doubt Herrmann would have thought too much of Elfman either!
The chapters from Goldsmith’s daughter’s book (available on Joel Goldsmith’s site) seem to suggest that Goldsmith saw John Williams as a something of a shill for doing things like conducting the Rose Bowl Parade, etc!
Well, if nothing else, I think that a lot of material from 1 and 2 will either be reused or re-recorded. Raimi seemed to accept nothing else for part 2!
Well, I somewhat see what you’re saying in that CHARLOTTE only has a few big themes that it uses again and again. That, however, is the main thing that I really love about it… I find the two key themes (Charlotte’s and Templeton’s) hypnotic and think this score is a long awaited return to one of the things Elfman is best at: theme and varriation. Through the whole album, he’s weaving them in and out of the movie, and the payoff by the end of the album is extrodinary. I challenge anyone not to be weepy during the first few minutes of Wilbur’s Homecoming – it’s quite original and one of the best examples of extended writing that he’s done.
My issue with BIG FISH is that although there are individual cues that I really like (Underwater / Sandra’s Theme, The Growing Montage, etc,) by and large the score CD just isn’t a satisfying listen to me. Jenny’s theme shows up often through the score, but despite some clever uses of it here and there, the whole thing doesn’t stick together in any cohesive way for me. The “main titles” melody never really did much for me either. I think this may have been corrected by a score release lengthier than 39 minutes, but I guess we have no way of knowing the answer to that.
Getting back to CHARLOTTE, though… while I certainly agree that there are more stand-out cues in BIG FISH, this new one really works as a whole much better for me. I agree with Ryan’s statment that it just gets sweeter every day. The first time through, I thought it was pleaseant but nothing special, but as time went on I found myself really thinking about the themes and loving what Elfman pulled off with this one. I’d easily rank it among the best scores he’s written.
Just for frame of refernce, these are the scores I’d generally put on the top teer of his output (in no particular order):
BATMAN RETURNS
BLACK BEAUTY
MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE
THE FAMILY MAN
HULK
SPIDER-MAN 2
and now CHARLOTTE’S WEBCHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY and RED DRAGON are up there for me too.
All true, but I know Dan Goldwasser (who took the picture) and he said that the piece Elfman was conducting was a wild track that was never intended to be used in the picture.
I think the cue Danny conducted was just for fun… I don’t think they used the recording in the final picture. If you look closely, he doesn’t even have a baton!
It was in the proper ratio when I saw it! Sorry that you got a bum projection of the picture.
I thought it looked and sounded great. The audio got a pretty serious remix from what I remember and the score was nice and loud.
I’ve seen DEEP SEA 3D twice. It uses the themes from Serenada, but really rethinks the music: Everything thing is reorchestrated and completely reconceptualized. There are many new motifs and textures in there too which are unique to DEEP SEA. It should not be mistaken for a hack cut-n-paste job: It certainly isn’t that.
Elfman wrote about 25 mintues for DEEP SEA and Debra Lurie was responsible for about 10 additional minutes of adaptations (the more literal quotes from Serenada as well as some additional music). Her contributions blend seemlessly with what Elfman did himself, and I dare anyone to spot which cues are hers.
Lurie actually has done similar work recently on CHARLOTTE’S WEB.
Elfman originally recorded in March, but it was always planned to come back in the fall and do some pick-up sessions. Lurie adapted some of the cues that no longer matched the edit of the final film.Anyway, back to DEEP SEA… several IMAX scores have been released on CD, so I don’t see why this one wouldn’t be. Elfman CDs typically sell well, so there’s certainly a buck to be made. There may have been some issue about not wanting the release of DEEP SEA to clash with the release of Serenada, so it could still be a ways off, but I suspect it will come out sooner or later (that is, assuming the movie stays in circulation!)
Well in FORBIDDEN ZONE, the “zone” is located in the Sixth Dimension. I’m guessing it’s more or less a direct sequel to that movie, rather than a riff on FIFTH ELEMENT
Well in FORBIDDEN ZONE, the “zone” is located in the Sixth Dimension. I’m guessing it’s more or less a direct sequel to that movie, rather than a riff on FIFTH ELEMENT
Well, in the case of A CIVIL ACTION, the film was pretty dramatically reediting at the 11th hour and Danny had to go back and rescore a bunch of stuff. A lot of the album consists of cues recorded for the first cut of the picture that didn’t really fit the new version of the movie. Much of what he did is in there, and only a little of it got drops (notably the main title cue).
Another on the list of “sorta rejected” scores, however, is ANYWHERE BUT HERE. Danny only wrote a short score for the movie, but even so several cues were dropped in favor of pop songs. I read an interview with him sometime after where he said that he really wanted to take his name off the picture, but his agent convinced him not to.
Wow, I heard that ROBINSONS was due to score later this month! I guess there’s some major reworking going on now that Lassiter is on board, which can only be good for the movie (and the score).
I posted this in another thread, but I think it speaks to some of the concerns here:
Date: February 26, 2006 05:34PMI think there WILL be a Serenada release eventually, but who knows when. By the way, I’ve heard both Serenada and the music in the movie, and trust me when I say that both are outstanding. Initially, I didn’t care much about the music for the picture, but my mind was changed pretty damn fast on that one.
There’s an article on soundtrack.net that describes this all way better, but they recorded the whole thing in Decemeber and then tracked it into parts of the movie. Elfman THEN wrote about 25 minutes of totally new music using the Serenada themes, but completely rethinking the orchestration and everything. Parts of the score go from movement one right into movement four and then back… it’s all really fresh and really good! The new music was recorded in January and conducted by Pete Anthony. It certainly does not feel like it was just tacked in there.
In ways, more dynamic and chilling than Serenda itself! Debra Lurie wrote about 10 minutes in addition to that, but most of what she did are adaptations of sections from Serenada. There is one section involving turtles that she scored with kinda a 50s doowop thing… it sounds nothing like the rest of the score, but really works in context!
Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that the score in the picture is really good, and I hope that the album (should there be one!) includes the six movments plus at least some of the Deep Sea cues, if not all of them (everything together totals around 75 minutes).
I think there WILL be a Serenada release eventually, but who knows when. By the way, I’ve heard both Serenada and the music in the movie, and trust me when I say that both are outstanding. Initially, I didn’t care much about the music for the picture, but my mind was changed pretty damn fast on that one.
There’s an article on soundtrack.net that describes this all way better, but they recorded the whole thing in Decemeber and then tracked it into parts of the movie. Elfman THEN wrote about 25 minutes of totally new music using the Serenada themes, but completely rethinking the orchestration and everything. Parts of the score go from movement one right into movement four and then back… and it’s all really good! In ways, more dynamic and chilling than Serenda itself! Debra Lurie wrote about 10 minutes in addition to that, but most of what she did are adaptations of sections from Serenada. There is one section involving turtles that she scored with kinda a 50s doowop thing… it sounds nothing like the rest of the score, but really works in context!
Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that the score in the picture is really good, and I hope that the album (should there be one!) includes the six movments plus at least some of the Deep Sea cues, if not all of them (everything together totals around 75 minutes).
I would guess it’s new music. I can’t picture Seranda Schizophrenia accompaning footage of sea life.
What the hell is this even doing on here? Am I mistaken, or did all this happen in 1996?!
Notwithstanding, the Adam Clayton / Larry Mullen cover of the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE theme was recorded before Elfman even came onto the picture.
Um… he has a “producer” credit on FOREVER and he hasn’t watched it? I always suspected that title was bulls***.
Yeah, Elfman said that they _tried_ to get Steve to come in and do the arrangements, but that he declined.
My favorites (in no particular order):
HULK
THE FAMILY MAN
MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE
BLACK BEAUTY
MEN IN BLACKrunner up:
SPIDER-MAN 2Yeah, the rumor you’re talking about goes waaaaaaay back and not only is it a distortion of how he actually works, but it fails to ackknowledge that nearly every film composer working these days does things in very similar ways (the notable exceptions being, of course, the old old pros like John Williams, John Barry, Morricone and Randy Newman).
An interview with Steve Bartek from years ago spells out Danny process (or least, what it was at the time). He works the basic cue out on a sequencer and lays in many of the samples and non-orchestral sounds that will be used in the final cue. He then makes a print out on which he writes – by hand! – much of the orchestral stuff and usually an additional 30-50% of what the cue will be. Elfman has admitted that his way of writing isn’t exactly text-book, but Bartek has added that anyone who knows anything about music can look at it and understand exactly what Elfman is saying.
Since mock ups of EVERY CUE are required by pretty much anyone who does a film score these days, Elfman’s team does that as well, but both Elfman and Bartek have been explicit that no one on the team is permitted to take too many liberties with the music.
In the recording process, some elements are replaced by the live orchestra, but some stay in the final mix (often the exotic percussion that he’s recorded and layed down and any funky samples and synth effects that he wants in there).
Although he did not study at Julliard, his method of working has obviously proved successful enough for him to continue to deliver music on time to the people who’ve hired him. Love or hate his music, you have to admit that he’s been able to write and record extremely complex, sophisticated pieces in a way that more than proves his chops as a professional musician.
By the way, many of the other big guys working today don’t get as hands on with their music as Elfman regularly does. John Ottman works the whole cue out on a sequencer and lets his orchestrators and transcribers take it from there. Christopher Young’s methood of working is quite similar, from what I hear, as is David Arold’s and numerous other guys who are don’t have to answer these bulls*** charges every few years.
Yeah, I think it’s a combination of that, and that the first set of demos were probably used as playback for when they were shooting the movie. Once the film was all together, Elfman probably went back and better molded the underscore to the picture. The vocals seem to be the same between both versions.
Personally, I like all the songs except for “Tears To Shed,” which leaves me a bit cold. I love love love the Wedding Song, especially the last 90 seconds or so.
