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I just mean packaging can make or break a movie. Trailers can be misleading. I was turned off by the Chocolate Factory trailers but still believe the movie may be great.
Well, I think Elfman has inspirations that span everywhere. Whether it’s ideas for tone color or whatnot, different composers emulate eachother all the time (whether they know it or not). There is a demarcation point though, between simply sounding similar to someone and writing a “note-for-note” copy of someone else’s music. Unless it was intended (i.e. Mission: Impossible), I don’t think Elfman has ever gone that far.
James Horner has. Ask the estate of Nino Rota.
It’s funny that I see Ligeti and Strauss on there. You’d think this is a Kubrick movie with those wild credits. I also like it that almost every kid gets a seperate Elfman song. This is shaping up into at least what I’d call quite the quasi-musical. I just hope Elfman’s vocals aren’t as digitally disguised in all of them as they were in the “Oompa Loompa Welcome Song” from the trailer.
One thing I noticed off the bat: I see Gloop gets a song performed by The Alleyns School Brass Ensemble. Here’s an early-90’s-Elfman sensability. Since Gloop is European I see plenty of Alberti Bass, ala Beetlejuice and “Christmas Montage” in Nightmare Before Christmas (remember the scene with the pudgy kid?). That’s the only thing I think I can predict at this point.
Well, I’m not saying he’s unoriginal per say. Horner did some kick-ass Klingon music for Star Trek II. He is talented. I suppose it’s mostly the few times he pulls something “unoriginal” that overshadows the majority. I doubt very much that Elfman holds a grudge though so, I agree, it’s probably just the fans at eachother’s throats.
Case in Point: http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/elfman/archive/FSM95a.htm
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Elfman’s criteria, on the other hand, is more in degrees of originality. For him, if score Z is a knock-off of scores X and Y, no matter how close or not-close it is, it’s still a knock-off, so who cares? Lost forever are the infinite number of different and potentially much better ways of approaching movie X. Elfman does not get work based on his ability to write knock-offs of different composers – he’s the first to admit he’s not trained in the way John Williams is, and thus there’s no point in him trying to be John Williams. Plus, he has written so many of the “score X’s” of the world in the first place – things like Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Batman and Edward Scissorhands which end up in every temp score, and anybody who disagrees should watch Honey, I Shrunk the Kids and Casper – that it’s infuriating for him to see other composers rip him off, deny it, and all the while deny that he even “wrote” those scores in the first place.
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Elfman cites John Williams’s classic shark theme from Jaws as an example which if ripped-off today, would be justified probably like this “They’d say, ‘Well, it’s just two notes, it’s just a thing, anybody could have done that, so I’m just kind of doing the same thing, I’m not really doing John Williams.’ Well, the fact is, he did it first. It doesn’t matter how simple it is or where it came from, he brought it to a genre. It doesn’t matter to me whether I can identify John Williams’s classical homage for several of the Star Wars themes. The fact is, he brought it to the science fiction genre and made it fresh. On Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure, of course I was inspired by Nino Rota. Nino Rota’s influence is all over it, but I was the first to take it and apply it to a contemporary American comedy. And then after Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure came out, I heard Nino Rota-inspired music in every contemporary comedy for the next five years! And still, well ‘Elfman didn’t do that, that’s inspired by Nino Rota,’ but that’s not the point. The point is they didn’t think of doing it for an American comedy The fact that Nino Rota and Bernard Hermann are my inspirations and show themselves in scores like Batman and Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure I’ll freely admit.” Elfman cites Psycho. Vertigo, The Day the Earth Stood Still, Jason and the Argonauts and “just about everything” by Herrmann as among his favorites, Rota’s work for Fellini’s Casanova is his single most favorite score, the music getting into the film to a point where it’s “almost a musical with everyone about to burst into song and sing along with the score.”
I don’t know. I read somewhere that Danny didn’t appreciate the way Horner copied both him and Nino Rota in the Honey I Shrunk the Kids score. I’m pretty sure he says that in an interview.
I mean, sure, Elfman was inspired by Nino Rota when he did Pee-Wee (so what) but he didn’t copy the man verbatem. Listen to the opening ostinato line from Horner’s Honey I Shrunk the Kids. It’s a carbon copy of the opening line from Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure. Then the music goes on to quote music from Rota’s Amacord without shame. Rota’s estate had to actually force the makers to put a credit in there at the end for the use of the theme.
Man, James Newton Howard is so far the best orchestral mock-up artist I’ve ever seen. He records custom samples with the orchestras that he writes scores for and, additionally, has pioneered the sample/keyboard industry since the beginning. There’s an article from KeyBoard magazine up at James-Newton-Howard.com where he explains some of what he does (how to manipulate samples to match real performance styles). It’s very helpful to those of us who are into this stuff.
Also, his studio blows my mind too.
By the way, you were right about the choir library. I spoke too soon. I just checked SoundsOnline.com…
http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-165Hey I was listening to the radio the other day and this guy was on with a really great idea. He’s voting Bush and really hoping the man will be re-elected. In addition to that — so he won’t be depressed if the outcome favors Kerry — he bet a grand that Kerry would win. So when all is over and done with, if Bush wins he’ll have his man back in office and if Kerry wins he’ll have an extra grand in his pocket.
I’m too cheap for any of that though.
Go Bush
More Wes Craven I think. I heard a while back that Danny was originally intended to score New Nightmare, which would have been awesome.
Don’t quote me but I think I heard that in the commentary on the New Nightmare DVD. Craven even put Danny’s nephew in one scene.
That Thade “contrabassoon, snare drum and muted brass” theme from Planet of the Apes was total Herrmann.
Danny wanted more credit for what he did in that movie. I think he wanted a writing credit or something but had to settle for “Executive Producer” (or associate producer — I can’t remember) which caused a bit of resentment between the two men. Danny said it was building up anyway and was bound to happen… but that was over a decade ago and they’re over it.
Yeah. Get Sibelius.
It’s better anyway. It’s used in studios and (besides doing half the orchestration work) is extremely adaptable. You can set commands in the dictionary area for anything. The plugins are awesome too. I have yet to be disapointed.
Get that.
Also… for mixing get Pro-Tools and a 5.1 audio card (one that supports samples, GIGA and soundfont).
I don’t know. They’ll have to re-edit and Danny’s music would really be the only reason to do that. I don’t think Hollywood fatheads are willing to spend that kind of time and money on something simply based on that — despite the music and it’s ass kicking capability. Maybe Sam Raimi could pull his weight but I doubt it.
Oh well. It would be awesome to see anyway.
I remember a lot of people thinking Danny would have a cameo at the beginning of Red Dragon (me included). It turned out he didn’t (even though he scored the movie) but Schifrin did. That was nice.
BTW, Just got The Amityville Horror soundtrack that Schifrin did way back when. Great stuff. The La-La choir and growling brass sounds so much like Danny.
I have this great scheme for when that happens. I sign each one of my prior DVD sets “George Lucas” and then travel around to different pawn shops in the area hocking them for flamboyantly high prices.
That way I can fully enjoy the latest releases.
I love Newton Howar’s music (especially after his Shyamalan movies) and Hanz Zimmer is getting good in his years too (I tracked down THE RING promo and it’s top notch stuff, really). Nobody can beat Elfman though. Goldenthal, Shirley Walker and even Joel McNeely’s orchestral performance of the original 1960’s TV theme all owe something to Elfman’s score. Danny CREATED that grandiose gothic “Wagner-esque” vibe for Batman in full orchestra. IT’s so perfect that even after his departure from the series people duplicate it.
I think Zimmer and Howard can collaborate on something interesting — and I’ll even buy the CD when it comes out — but I’m willing to put down money that it somehow reminds us of Elfman’s CD.
