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A lot of what I hear sounds like old-style williams. Just hearing one of the the militaristic Raiders motifs return (in ‘Spell of the Skull”) is really cool. That motif was injected into the “Sun Room” track, originally, in Raiders but then sequed into the full Ark theme. The clip they have here though seques directly into the much quieter Skull theme (which reminds me of the Green Goblin theme for some weird reason). When he gets really atonal as well, like in “Secret Doors in Scorpions,” the man’s signature is obvious. This is the same guy behind ET and Jurassic Park.
Apparently, since the Marion character returns too, the Love Theme returns as well (in “Finale”) and even expands. The idea in Raiders was that the relationship wasn’t really fleshed out. Here I guess it is.
So, in terms of dramatic pacing, connecting the first and (supposedly) last of the series is a great idea.
“Zimmer praised the craftsmanship of Williams (Schindler’s List, Jurassic Park) and Morricone. ‘There’s never a lazy note from them,’ he said. Gunning said: ‘I go to movies a lot and I find myself disappointed again and again [by] the blandness of the music. Where has melody gone in film music? What do you remember of Breakfast at Tiffany’s? Moon River by Henry Mancini. You can’t get it out of your head.’
He said that these days scores were more likely to be written by keyboard players with computer skills learned at film schools rather than composers trained at music college.”
Ironic, huh? I love a lot of Zimmer’s work but he, I believe, is closer to Elfman when it comes to his “conservative” music background, i.e. there is none. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he doesn’t write his music down either. FSM wrote a while back that he just puts it into a computer as well.Nothing terrible, just ironic that he’s saying this in an article.
Monsterhead Wrote:
> I feel what makes a film edgy is luring your
> audience, challenging their perceptions and
> shocking them, but in an entertaining way. I
> don’t feel that with Burton anymore. No personal
> stamp. Now when I watch other directors I love:
> The Coehn Brothers, David Cronenberg, Lynch – I
> can see their artistry – but with Burton, it feels
> so half-assed.
>
> What pains me is that I am such a Burton fan. But
> when I watch his stuff now, I see so little of
> what made me a fan. While other directors I
> admire continue to grow, I feel like Timmy is just
> spinning his wheels…
>
> I see his films not because I want to complain,
> but because I want to see him grow creatively. I
> liked BIG FISH, but I felt frustrated. Still,
> plenty to love about it. Kinks and all. I
> thought CHARLIE was good, but felt in-sincere.
> COPRSPE BRIDE was very good. That was what I
> expected. SWEENEY was going to be the real one
> for me, but it just left me cold…It sounds to me like you just changed as a viewer and Burton has remained more or less the same as a director. That’s not a bad thing though — not at all — I’m not nearly what I was ten years ago (i.e. I listen to a lot more artists than Danny these days). Tastes change, I’m saying. Burton is the same director though. Sweeney Todd is much more mature and edgier than his early works.
From what I’ve seen (the key words), Ledger’s performance employs a new voice (with a dry cadence), new movement (apparently based off of a character in A Clockwork Orange) and (duh) different make-up. It’s just another take.
By Nino Rota’s estate too, I believe — but just for credit. That was the Amacord theme he used in that movie, and note for note too. I mean… if you’re going to rip something off, be a little more clever about it.
rkeaveney Wrote:
> HAHA.
>
> Not a bad performance of “Epiphan”, but certainly
> lacking the bravado of Len Cariou.
>
> RyanI agree, though I do think Depp is a better actor.
One thing I forgot to mention: I really like how the themes from the show are used as underscore, in the first clip at least. The “tragedy” motif which is first heard in “No Place Like London” — after Todd tells Anthony that he’s young and that he will learn — is used in the lead-up to the “My Friends” clip on solo cello after Carter tells Depp not to be afraid. I can’t see what’s happening on screen (presumabely he looks into a cradle) but the arrangement is perfect.
It’s actually a “Snapped Pizz” sound from an old sample library (I think it was Emu or Akai or something). I have the very sample. Elfman used it on it’s own sometimes and sometimes mixed it with an anklung or another percussive sound to convey this “wooden timbre” that you percieve. At first, I percieved it too. In truth though, it’s more complicated. It’s horse hair pulled intensely and digitally masked.
There’s a guy out there named Bill Wrobel. He’s a film score analyst and has been going everywhere he can, from film Studios to UCLA’s private collections, in search for vintage or “filed away” filmscores. He does this individually and negotiates it through the studio.
So, it is possible to “see” the original orchestrations and scores. You have to be in California though. The thing is you aren’t allowed to photocopy any of it. You’d have to bring a sketchpad with you and take it all down as you see it, if you’re even granted permission. Under supervision, you might be though.
Well, it’s not my favorite. It’s not bad but it’s just outside of his style (the style that turned many of us onto his music to begin with), but it has it’s moments.
On the other hand, I think composers should try new things, as long as they return to their own voice once in a while.
I forgot to add, the fact that Sean Murphy — who mixes most of Elfman’s stuff anyway (including Batman Returns) — mixed this acoustic recording, means it’s the closest thing we’ll have to an old fashioned Batman score for a while.
You know… I liked that. Why couldn’t the post-Batman Returns sequels follow that same line of thought. Even people who give Spider-Man 3 crap have to agree that Christopher Young and the producers were smart to keep that theme. Why didn’t Shumacher?
ANYWAY, That was the one real thing that bothered me about the Batman sequels. They had a perfectly good theme and didn’t use it.
The only thing that surprises me about this new music though is the new themes for Catwoman and The Joker? Why not just add onto what characters Elfman didn’t write themes for? Nobody can top his Catwoman theme and the Joker’s waltz is classic.
I can’t think of any off the top of my head. I remember a while back Elfman saying something to the extent of the whole Mission: Impossible thing feeling really surreal and weird. It wasn’t only that it was a last minute kind of score. De Palma was, along with Scorsese back in the 70’s, one of the young directors who respected and used a lot of the ailing and aging Bernard Herrmann’s talents — Elfman’s #1 influence. Obsession and The Bride Wore Black were two movies I think they did together (correct me if I’m wrong). Herrmann had even signed to do Carrie but died during Taxi Driver.
The whole experience felt, therefore, like Elfman was taking the reigns from Herrmann while working with De Palma all those years later.
It’s fantastic to hear Zimmer can channel Elfman’s voice and keep true to himself. I was against this first (even put up a petition) but have since changed my mind — a couple months back infact.
So hopefully — and this will almost certainly not happen — the next Batman movie he’ll do a similar nod to an old iconic “theme” of the past…
But Isn’t this ironic? The Mission: Impossible movies, the Hannibal movies, the Batman movies and now The Simpsons movie. So different but when he actually HAS to quote Elfman he excells at it.
Well, if you go to iTunes and track down “Only Revolutions (Reel 4)” the first clip is tracked almost completely with Elfman’s Overeager Overture.
From what I’ve heard, Burton has been interested in doing Sweeney Todd ever since his days making Batman in London. You have a good point on it being kind of a downer that Elfman’s not involved (so far) but it’s best to look on the bright side of things. It’s a Tim Burton film and we know the music is good anyway.
TenderLumpling Wrote:
> Hmm, aside from the director association, this has
> nothing to do with Elfman.
>
> I’ve said it before, why even make a Tim Burton
> movie without Danny Elfman music?Yes, I know, but I hope you don’t mind if I still post about it. Stephen Sondheim follows the same inspiration Elfman follows on this one (Herrmann and the Russians). We can’t just limit our scope to Elfman if we know the music is good (there’s so much music out there, that would be a pretty narrow scope). Elfman’s fine with Burton making a Sondheim musical. I am too.
Plus we still don’t know yet if supplementary score is needed.
