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I liked the music and I did the score…very heavy on the Kilar but that’s ok by me. Is that Rotten Tomatoes interview real?
Anyway, I liked both films but there’s definitely something up with a large part of both scores not seeing final picture. But putting that aside for a moment, I find it’s weird that both scores rely heavily on only one real theme that’s developed. I know I might face arguments on that point, but I really feel that it’s true.
I think there are two things to consider. The projects and how he writes music.
Projects: it could easily be said that Burton was past his prime after Batman, Edward, and Nightmare. Those are three magical projects. It’s arguable that Elfman will never have a chance to write for such fine projects again. He said in a recent interview that he’s still waiting for his “Godfather.” That is to say not only a chance to write for a huge cultural hit (Godfather, Star Wars, Titanic type phenomenon), but also deliver.
How he writes music: yes, it’s true that writing for film is a job. He’s written probably 100 hours of music by this point. Just like with Mozart or anything else, not all of it is sacred. I LOVE those early scores and part of why I listen to the new ones is because I’m interested in how he develops. It’s not like classical music where we are certain not to get anything new from Verdi, Mozart, or anyone. We have the thrill of being alive while this stuff comes out.
As for writing concert music, ballet, or whatever. It’s almost universally agreed upon that it’s harder to write music without suggestive parameters of film, a narrative, text or other things. It’s easier to write an opera than it is a (good) string quartet. I think this extra-curricular music he’s writing is a great exercise for him. As an artist, he’s always looking to write his best work. Sometimes he is inspired, sometimes not. Sometimes he depends on his formidable skills as a craftsman (i.e. a good score with no really good theme).
Plus since these guys are in a competitive profession as film composers, he has the pressure of remaining cutting edge and sounding new. All those cheezy Goldsmith synthesizers sounded “modern” at one point.
Williams’ later Star Wars music is new music. He didn’t write in his late-70s style. He couldn’t. He’s not that composer anymore. So while a part of me hopes Elfman finds some inspiration akin to what he had going on during the late 80s or early 90s, I’m glad he’s trying to move forward. It’s the only thing anyone with any integrity can do.I am and I do work “in the business.” However, my personal theory on this matter is the same as sajrocks’ point: that it’s up to Elfman to get the music to his public.
It’s all fine and dandy to be hired to do a film score and get an album put out. Elfman has more money than God right now (don’t let me be misunderstood, his success is well deserved). if he wanted to record it, he could.
For other lesser known composers, it’s mostly about doing whatever the hell you need to do to get your music recorded and put out. Now…it’s nice to be rich and have the luxury of doing what you want, but how excited would you be about dropping $300,000 to record a ballet? You’d have to drop another $300,000 to get anyone beyond the ultra-dedicated to buy it. And in truth, you’d sell about 5 to 10 thousand copies. For a net profit of about -$598,000.
The big record industry is dead…even if they think they are still alive. Hopefully there will be a reason or occasion to have this piece recorded. But again, I doubt it *ever will. The most likely thing will be that it will be used in part or in whole for another soundtrack. not only did serenada get made because of IMAX Deep Sea 3D, but it was also extensively cut up and re-used for Standard Operating Procedure.*in Elfman’s lifetime.
Definitely. Have a happy brithday Ryan! I’ve not been on the site in quite a while. Glad I signed on today!
Welcome to the world of concert music! It was just creative luck that Serenada was recorded. They got IMAX to pay for the recording so they could use sections of it in the “IMAX DEEP SEA 3D” movie. That’s why it says that on the cover. Otherwise, there’s no way in the world it would have been recorded.
THE BAD NEWS
Same goes for Rabbit. It was not a smashing success. I saw it in a half full Metropolitan Opera House. Danny was happy as it was his first foray into ballet. But the chance that someone is going to foot the $300,000 budget to record and produce it? Slim to none.
With that said, there’s a better chance that someone will choose to revive the live ballet. But again, i wouldn’t hold my breath for that. And depending on what the publishing agreement is on the music, they may not be able to perform the music alone without the dancing.
PLUS, since Elfman is used to the big budget Hollywood sized orchestra, even if it were to be played in concert, it would be (and was) expensive as hell. Both pieces were impractically scored and won’t come close to making it into the so-called orchestral repertoire.
You add to this, that orchestras turn up their noses at most things, especially concert pieces and a ballet that were “orchestrated” by others…none of this adds up to you hearing it in a town near you any time soon.
THE GOOD NEWS
This is part of the deal. If you are a concert hall composer…you work hard on composing a piece for 3 months or 6 months…you get inadequate rehearsal time, most likely the orchestra never plays the piece from beginning to end before the first performance, and when it happens, it’s most likely a bad performance. Then that’s it. OVER. Finito. No more performances! Do you see why many gifted composers don’t find this professional avenue attractive? But, Danny’s been through it. Part of the reward IS the making of the music and not the payday and not the screen credit. It’s simply making music with someone you like. He’s been through that now and it’s a totally different experience than scoring a movie for the 75th time. Good for him.it’s too much. it was one of those, “ANYONE BUT HIM” moments. Elfman Zero Oscars, Goldsmith (1), Bernstein (1), Morricone (1 honorary), and he’s now the only other besdies FRANZ WAXMAN to win two years in a row…it’s really a sickening mystery. Edward Scissorhands is unrecognized, but Brokeback Mountain (3 chords on a guitar), and Babel (more guitar noddling) wins? Who is the Academy?
I saw this on my TV Guide, but couldn’t stay up. Anyone got it on youtube? or anything?
Why is he on the talk show circuit?
I woudn’t say Elfman’s POTA was BETTER than Goldsmith’s. I think the ket with both of them is their originality. Goldsmith’s is so far out and cool…c’mon…getting the orchestra to make ape sounds is pretty novel.
I applaud Danny for trying to do something new. All the electronics and bombast. really top notch.!11th hour Kong should be disqualified anyway…I realize people do the best under pressure, but over 2 hours of music written in weeks with 9 orchestrators isn’t worth sh#t. It’s ambience, not music.
The cover of all the papers in NY today are all Kong. They says it’s good but I don’t ever recall such and over the top marketing blitz. Talk about fear of failure.I don’t know what they are worried about.
Maybe I’m just bitter cuz of Shore’s lost score.
Oh god, someone asked for my opinion!
I suppose it’s a good thing no matter what when you form an opinion of someone’s work. Of course it’s all subjective but here goes:
I don’t know if Danny is my number one, but he’s up there with Williams in my book. But it’s different. I think because of Danny’s “lack of formal” training he thinks outside of the box and produces some incredible stuff.
I guess I respect all composers but I got tired of Horner’s rehash a long time ago. With that said I love the Rocketeer and Glory.
I like Shore too, he’s done some really freakin great stuff on the smallest scale to the biggest. Cool.
Newton Howard I don’t think I’ve ever really like anything he’s done. The Village is ok, but ALL the rest of it sounds like orchestrated atmospheric synth shit.
I like some projects Zimmer has done, but more than anyone, his quality is uneven. And he’s left himself open to the purist’s criticism because he has established this factory with 30 composers working on the staff. I don’t quite get it. But Gladiator and Thin Red Line, and other are great stuff.
I have always loved Wojciech Kilar and just wish he had done more american films.
I don’t think enough people mentioned Goldsmtih (although recently deceased), Planet of the Apes RULES.
And then there Goldenthal…who I think ranges from Brilliant to Crappy. Titus is just great, as with michael collins. But then there’s SWAT.As for the John “I score 20 films every year” debney…I just don’t get that either. What all the composers I respect have in common is somehow communicating to the listener something profound (enough) to make believe what they are trying to accomplish is actually art.
they were notched since he was signing promo not for resale copies. I think it’s great and adds an extra bit of exclusivity.
You want to know the worst part? I should be shot for this…I moved from Massachusetts to NYC about a year and a half ago…and somewhere in my moving I lost my signed Edward Scissorhands music! I’ve been looking for it for a year and it’s seems it’s gone….(insert mopey sad face here)
It is curious as to WHY on her website it lists her as co-composer.
Otherwise it’s demonstrably true that Elfman writes his own music. I remember a few interviews where Bartek and he explain the process. He composes orchestral drafts and prepares his own mock-ups. And the orchestration is “prepared” by Bartek and Co. News to the world: It’s really freaken tough and time consuming to write orchestral music, especially the dense action cues. No one recognizes how much work it is.
So not only is Danny working to the limits of his conceptual abilities, there are all sorts of tedious details about preparing the music to be performed and recorded.
The best anology I have heard of is comparing the film composers to architects (architecture also a forgotten and underrated artform).
The composer comes up with the creative part as the architect creates design. A team of draftsmen prepare the drawings, under his supervision, and in the end his creative vision is brought to life. The composer invents the musical material, he has colors and instrumentation in his head, orchestrators prepare it, and the end product is what he desired.
The acting principle here is that Elfman can change orchestrators, and it always will have the “Elfman Sound”.The only argument that can be made is that film composers, who want to have or be known for their “artistic purity” should need these people helping them. The truth of course is that it’s the nature of the beast. “Not enough time” has been the rule from Steiner to Elfman. Unfortunately even the esteemed John Williams whom I love uses orchestrators. Only difference is that he doesn’t credit them in Albums.
I work in classical music in NYC, the administrative side. I am not an active musician, just a terrible terrible piano player. I am educated in theory but not in making music. Lucky my job lets me go to orchestral concerts as often as I like (including elfman’s carnegie hall gig), and i’m actually currenty in charge of a extremely high profile film music project. But I’m walking away from it in two weeks. It sucks but I have to do it.
I got all nervous when I hadn’t received mine, and I wrote a letter to tower.com, from my high horse I was a disgruntled consumer who feels he had been ripped off…but they say -812 weeks, but it arrived Tuesday. So I got mine.
As to its authenticity…when I met him in February at his Carnegie Hall concert, I had him sign my NBC album, and yes it’s a perfect match. So no worries, I have no doubt he signed a quick 100 of these. Lord knows film composers have quick writing skills.well, I can’t say I’ve been more excited to see a movie than for Corpse Bride. And for the first time in a long time, something lived up to my self-imposed hype. It was great! I haven’t said that about any movie in a long time.
R
Tim is just doing his best Orson impression. And I know Edward was a risk, but Depp has hardly been box office poison since. I knwo everyone likes playing the underdog, but c’mon, after edward, no one had to convince anyone to cast Depp in anything.
Did anyone read the article in Film Score Monthly (Magazine)…good and long! the most encouraging thing being he’s hoping to record Seranada Schitzophrena!
it’s actually holds up. I mean I was at the premiere in NY and like a complete geek I was so excited to have met the Maestro and here his first big piece for the concert hall, but I was listening to it the night before last, and it does hold up. It’s not a piece in the concert hall tradtition so much as it is a good soundtrack to some movie playing in his head. I mean, he (and his orchestrators) have only ever written for movies, so there’s no mistaken. I don’t say this with any judgement as it’s a great piece, beautiful, exciting. It’s only a credit to him that he wrote a 40 minute piece that was that good on his first try.
I would really like to hear something without the orchestrators though. I understand he uses the software that helps him write fast, but I have never heard of a composer being commisioned to write an orchestral piece, and then to use orchestrators. No matter. I don’t care if Oingo Boingo wrote it together, it’s good.
I’m guessing it will be some B composer for Spider-Man 3, because they will be cheapos and not dish ut the money for someone big.
Unfortunately, most people don’t give a crap about film music, and even with someone like Elfman on board, the first and second movies gave just as much or more attention to explosion sounds as they did music.
The third film will undoubtedly be the most sensational, and therefore, it will have the least emphasis on film subtleties.There was no part perhaps allusion of Elfman’s part, perhaps it’s all our opinions carrying us to rampant speculation. In any case, I hope no one is saying Horner is not a good composer or anything.
I am discouraged from some of Horner’s efforts but it happens, and no one is saying scoring something like Troy in like 2 and a half days is simple (even with ten ‘orchestrators’)…
It’s not simple. I don’t feel so much for the Horner’s or Zimmers…I personally am scared for the Elfman’s of the world who seem to travel a path of what they consider their calling, their art, and then get worn down and discouraged after a lifetime of fighting the system. a la Bernstein. I don’t want Danny to get bitter.
Hopefully he will be like Goldsmith and just never be satisfied with the amount of chances to write music, and never be sidetracked by the Hollywood crap.I bought it yesterday…I guess I’m branching out in my interests because it felt sort of weird buying video game music..but it’s actually quite good.
Well, as it is, I would be surprised if they released this piece on CD. Unless they release a live recording (which they won’t), I don’t imagine anyone is going to front the big money it would cost to record this thing.
Elfman probably didn’t make any money on this deal, and looking at the three limos pulling away from the Hall and the big after party (it wasn’t Carnegie Hall or the ACO that was paying), I’m guessing he lost money and this thing and just did it as a challenge. To rehearse and record a forty minute piece, it would cost a lot. And unlike a film, it’s not attached to any other marketing. I just don’t see it happening. Hopefully I’m wrong.The last slash standing: Did you see him outsdie right after the concert? He was being really nice to everyone.
I think most of the crowd (most of the people in my booth) were not classical music fans. But I think I am equally a fan of both. It was great whatever it was and whoever was listening. awesome.
