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Nice that this is confirmed straight from del Toro’s mouth. I’ve said tis before, but i really am psyched for this. He and Danny have such similar sensibilities, and Hellboy seems like a great outlet for Danny’s style. I really enjoyed the first movie but it’s score was only decent, so I can’t wait to hear what’s coming. Plus, I’ll be living in Southern California by the time the score is recorded… maybe I can get remotely close to the studio!
Elfman and Manson seemed to get along with their little MySpace video chat thing, but still, Manson’s a creep. I mean, as guitarfreak said, ewwwwwww.
I can’t believe he’s actually getting praise for this score! I tried to like parts of it, I really did, and I managed to enjoy the “Birth of Sandman” cue, but the rest of it SUCKS! And the “love theme” he came up with, from the “Web” and “Happy Ending” cues that weren’t used in the movie… it’s awful! Thank goodness for Sony stepping in and forcing Danny’s love theme back in there. Then there’s his claim that he adapted Danny’s themes… he didn’t! Except for part of the Green Goblin theme, I really don’t think he actually adapted any of the original material, that all renditions of the Spider-Man theme are only there thanks to Sony, Deborah Lurie, and John Debney. I know he wanted to do his own thing, but his own thing isn’t too great! And he’s considered a “veteran composer”… I lose more and more respect for him with every new interview I read. What a summer that a “Pirates of the Caribbean” score completely obliterates a “Spider-Man” score…
Pretty much seems like it. It was first on FSM, then IMDb, and now it’s on SoundtrackNet. Sounds pretty confirmed to me!
It sounds like a Planet of the Apes/Hulk hybrid, but as was mentioned, pretty much what was expected. It’s not my favorite side of Elfman, but it’ll definitely hold me over until “Hellboy 2,” which I’m really looking forward to.
I just saw the movie today, and while I thought the plot was just too much to handle in one gigantic sitting, I thought it had a terrific last hour that made the buildup worth watching. The whole movie was visually stunning, and that’s pretty much why these movies are so great: amazing effects, gorgeous cinematography, and really confident directing. I actually really liked the direction Zimmer went with the score. It was very different from the first two movies, but it matched the grandiose, epic finale. The moments when the “Hoist the Colors” theme kicked in during battle were really rousing, and the rest of the score at times veered from his typical style in favor of a more traditional sound that we may have heard from Alan Silvestri’s original score for the first movie. I’m listening to the score on its own right now, and while I don’t care for the Singapore elements or the really weird stuff, I’m really enjoying the big, epic tracks. I’m actually a little sad right now, because while I got more closure and satisfaction from this trilogy than the “Spider-Man” finale, I know that there aren’t going to be any more movies like these. Sure, there are more likely than not going to be more sequels with the best characters (Jack Sparrow, Barbossa), but I’ve heard that Gore Verbinski never wants to see another pirate ship again, and it will be extremely difficult for anyone else to fill his shoes. I feel lucky that we had such a likable set of movies that could have been total disasters but proved to be so damn entertaining.
The track name is “Molossus.” I enjoy Zimmer as a composer, and he’s a very smart man (side note: listen to the SoundtrackNet interview with him on his “Pirates 3” score — he’s very well spoken and intelligent, and he goes on to discuss his respect for and conversations with Danny Elfman concerning “The Simpsons”). However, I still feel his “Batman Begins” score was inappropriate, and the track titles are a bit pretentious — they’re all scientific names of bat species, and several consecutive tracks in there spell “BATMAN.”
I don’t understand why people don’t like Ottman’s X2 score. It has a terrific main theme and great secondary themes that really fit the movie tonally and also make for a good solo listen. Actually, the X2 score is pretty high up there among my favorites. But at least I’m in agreement on Goldenthal’s Batman scores, and most certainly also on Young’s take on “Spider-Man 3.” I’m a bit indifferent on “Batman Begins”… I didn’t like that movie but I didn’t hate the score, just it didn’t thrill me like Danny’s Batman did.
Eh, that’s a bit of a stretch. I keep hearing about comparisons between the Black Suit theme and the X3 theme, but I just don’t hear much similarity. As for Sandman’s theme, if it was written off of a temp-track, then perhaps it was from some sort of pirate movie score, because somehow the theme evokes the image of a sea monster rather than a city-dwelling supervillain. That, or the Stryker theme from “X2.” It doesn’t particularly sound like the sample in JMY’s cut, but then again, the uber-simple Sandman melody didn’t seem to require much creativity anyway. However, I will say that the Marko theme (played during any mention of Sandman’s daughter and coming to full stride during his first moments in his new form, though with some awkward notes thrown in) isn’t half bad. It’s almost comparable to the Doc Ock theme in that it’s got two parts, one for the character and one for the action, except that while all of the Doc Ock theme is fantastic, Sandman’s action theme sucks and his character theme lacks much versatility.
I’m beginning to suspect that Christopher Young completely omitted the Spider-Man theme from his score, and that every instance of it heard in the movie (yes, that Main Titles rehash) was from the additional composers only. On his official website, Young has the entire “Harry Attacks Peter” track streaming (http://www.officialchristopheryoung.com/music.html) and it does not contain the Spider-Man theme at one point as it did in the movie. This leads me to believe: were the other composers brought on to adapt Danny’s music because CHRIS YOUNG NEVER USED THE SPIDER-MAN THEME AT ALL?! I would think the studio found find that rather disturbing, as did I. By the way, look through the rest of that website… in the video section, he “explains” the “best way” to score an action scene! Ahhh!!!
SoundtrackNet seems to always have the official word on things, and if that is true, then Danny is indeed scoring “Hellboy 2”!!!
I once read through James Cameron’s early ’90s script, and aside from the invention of organic webs that Koepp included, it would have made for a not-so-great movie. Maybe if he directed it he could have finagled some fun out of it, but the script was really weak, in my opinion. Whatever Koepp did with the first movie’s screenplay, he did it right. And I didn’t realize until yesterday that Sam and Ivan Raimi were credited not only as story writers, but also as screenwriters alongside Sargent on “Spider-Man 3″… that really explains a lot.
That’s a really accurate analysis! I mean, he nailed it! That was a convincing case to hire him for any future installments of the franchise, which Sony announced today that there will definitely be 3 of. Of course, the previous news that David Koepp is in talks to write “Spider-Man 4” also makes me very happy.
http://www.freezedriedmovies.com/
While I felt “Spider-Man 3” was a big stinking disappointment, I am still willing to let the series, and maybe even Raimi, redeem themselves. The article says that Carnage, Lizard, and Black Cat will be in the next movie, which I would actually be pretty psyched about. I remember being skeptical about Sandman when his presence was announced, because I knew that despite the best CGI, he’d never look truly realistic, especially in the wake of such photo-realism as Davy Jones. But I could definitely imagine good effects for Lizard and Carnage, while good casting could make for a good Black Cat. Just interesting to think about now, because I’m in such a dark place emotionally right now. It’s gotten that bad.
As promised, here is my 3 AM review.
Wow. This movie was one of the biggest disappointments I’ve ever encountered. And not just because of the music — I’ll get to that later — but because it was actually a bad movie! It lacked everything the first two movies had: great character development, fun action scenes, believability despite the premise. Keep in mind that I was introduced to Danny Elfman through the first movie and that it along with its sequel made me into a Spider-Man movie (not comic) fanatic. Look at my username! This is tragic!
The new characters had close to zero development, time for that for some reason sacrificed for a ton of unnecessary, stupid, out-of-place sequences. If you happen to see the movie like the rest of the world inevitably will, you’ll know EXACTLY when I’m talking about during one particular scene. Flint Marko only had a short scene devoted to his background, and his my friend and I looked quizzically at each other during his transformation sequence because it was simply too simple, especially compared to the villain transformations from the first two movies. Eddie Brock was in and out during gigantic intervals of time (as was Marko) and during his very limited time as Venom, I was just not at all impressed. I even got bored! BORED! Then there was Gwen Stacy and her father, both of whom were thrown in there without warning (or, quite frankly, desire) and not only wasted two good characters, but also wasted two good actors. James Cromwell shouldn’t be taking bit parts!
The effects were decent at times, but with a $250 million dollar budget, I expected far better. Sandman was a terrible choice for a screen villain because the effects just can’t justify that kind of imagery right now. Save for a few good-looking close-ups, Sandman felt very cartoonish. Venom’s effects were decent, but the character just wasn’t interesting enough to really pay attention. I’d try to compliment the improved CGI Spidey, but there just wasn’t much of it! Good lord, it’s a Spider-Man movie and there was just so little of him to be seen in action! They should have just done away with the Sandman character altogether and transferred the budget to more of Spidey swinging and fighting. When he was fighting, I found it very difficult to see what was going on. The combined constantly dark settings and quick, poorly composed shots made for flashbacks to similar scenes in “Hulk.” The amount of effects also seemed to take away from Sam Raimi’s style. In fact, during the action scenes, you could hardly tell it was one of his movies. One might think that it was directed by a newcomer who just got his hands on the newest effects software.
The story really did not compel me at all. I was very uninterested with what was going on and it was bursting with cliches. I noticed back in the last movie that Alvin Sargent’s dialogue was crappy, and it was taken to the next level with this movie. They should have brought back David Koepp! Also they constantly relied on flashbacks to keep the story going. One thing I loved about the second movie was how it was completely separate from the first movie, with no direct callbacks. Even the opening titles for the second movie found a way to provide a recap without resorting to reusing footage from the first.
And now for the music. There wasn’t much of it. I would say that a good third of it is temp-tracked from for first two movies, but primarily from the second. The new music didn’t stand out at all, and not in a good way. The only noticeable new theme that stuck with me was that of the Black-Suited Spider-Man, and it wasn’t anything great. I really expected something interesting during the few swinging scenes, but every single one was pretty much a repeat of the crane scene that many of you have seen/heard, with a rip from the main titles with the percussion removed. Did Young seriously think that was the best he could do with the Spider-Man theme?! I expected at least a little variation, but NONE! The main title sequence was significantly longer than the first two movies, allowing a little more time for the “villain part” of the music to play out, and it really did nothing for me. Even the titles themselves disappointed me. I know a lot of you, like myself before, are wondering about the finale, which was fantastic during the first two movies. I’ll write about the one in the third movie as a spoiler at the bottom of this post.
So here I am, at 3:30 AM writing this in a furious, disappointed, and depressed state. My favorite movies ever, at the top of my list, are scarred by an inadequate, low-quality sequel to finish off the franchise. I saw the first movie twice in theaters and the second one five times in theaters, and I bought both DVDs on their first day of release. I don’t plan on seeing the new one again, and I don’t plan on buying the DVD. That’s what it’s come to. I don’t know what happened to Sam Raimi, but he has lost his touch, and as a result, “Spider-Man 3” suffers greatly.
Goodnight, Elfmanites.
***POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT***
…there is no finale. Sorry. I was left with my mouth hanging open in awe, but nope, no finale, and thus no finale cue.
The superhero movie aspect was the last thing I thought of. Really, it’s time for these two to collaborate on a project. If Danny was going to be linked to every superhero project, he would have been brought on board to write themes for “Heroes” (which I would have really appreciated, actually, because I love the show but the music is terrible).
A del Toro-Elfman pairing is long overdue. Elfman’s musical style is perfect for del Toro’s visual style. I really enjoyed “Hellboy” and wasn’t too crazy about Beltrami’s score for it, so this news makes me quite happy!
From back in the day:
http://elfman.filmmusic.com/forum/read.php?7,14008,14008#14008
Wow, it’s kinda weird looking at something I wrote three years ago. Anyway, it appears that was written the moment I got home from that screening (I believe it was a 7:00 screening, the movie ended at 9, I took the subway and the additional drive home) so I’ll try to do the same and write something when I get back, even though it’ll be close to 3 AM with school the next day… I’m devoted to y’all!
I jut saw a Wal-Mart commercial advertising “Spider-Man 3” toys, and they used the “Cops and Robbers” cue from “Spider-Man 2” over footage parts of the crane scene from the new movie! I gotta say, it was arguably better than the Chris Young cue we know will be actually placed there. But it seems like Wal-Mart knows a lot more about Spider-Man music than Christopher Young does.
The X-Men films are similar. They all had different composers with very different sounds, yet each movie stands on its own and each score is appropriate for its respective movie. I don’t think New Line would want Raimi (or any other director) to copy Jackson’s style, and therefore a new score would be in order. Actually, this makes me think of something very funny… what if Raimi got hired and created a bold new vision for the movie, but the studio felt it wasn’t “Jackson enough” and had to hire another director to finish it who would be willing to emulate the style? As much as I love Raimi as a director, it would show him what he put Elfman through on “Spider-Man 2” and he would perhaps reflect upon it for the better…aye?
This is coming out of nowhere, but I’m gonna say that Raimi would go with Hans Zimmer. Let’s go down the list of the regulars: he’s still more or less estranged from Danny Elfman, I don’t think Christopher Young would be approved by the studio after the “Spider-Man 3” mess, and it’s waaaaay too big a project for Joseph LoDuca. When it would come time for him to pick a brand spanking new composer, I think he’d going to want the cliche guy who studios love. I mean, who would have ever thought to pick Zimmer for a Batman movie?
Me, with all those composers aside, I would want James Horner.
I suppose whoever wrote each respective cue could have done a worse job. They also could have done better (minus the use of “Aunt May Packs”). The Crane scene actually started off with some cool suspense music, but then just amounted to the Main Titles without the percussion… considering how versatile Elfman’s Spider-Man theme is, you’d think that Young or Debney would have had some fun with it, and it’s kind of sad that this opportunity went missed. Recall how Elfman scored Spidey’s rescue of Aunt May in “Spider-Man 2,” now that was something special. From what I gathered to be the Sandman theme, I wasn’t very impressed, and it seemed to be a rather bland theme for a villain. I actually liked the way Young went with the Belltower clip. It had a nicely darkened version of the Spider-Man theme and actually remained Elfman-esque. The choir had a real ethereal yet sinister quality to it, which I thought was kind of neat. The Romantic Night clip wasn’t bad either… granted Elfman’s Love Theme had to be adapted and there’s only so much you can do with that theme, it went in an interesting direction. From the Aunt May clip, we now also know that some of Elfman’s unused “Spider-Man 2” cues will be put in the movie, so perhaps we might hear more of the unused cues (!!!) ?
Overall, I think when we see Spidey in this new movie, we’ll be hearing the first part of Elfman’s Spider-Man theme without it ever finishing with the final 5 notes, like in the Crane clip’s use of the Main Titles and in the train scene from “Spider-Man 2.” However, judging by the clips, it might not be an absolutely horrible listening experience… at least, half the time.
Obviously the music had to be edited for the special edition, so they didn’t have too much to work with. But forget that, HOW AWESOME WAS THAT FOOTAGE?! Spidey getting slammed against the train back and forth, Spidey getting hit by another train, Spidey making an instant swinging recovery from said hit… it’s amazing stuff that probably cost millions and got left out of the theatrical cut.
